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Warping so strong, that it takes PEI with it?  

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David
(@david-8)
Active Member
Warping so strong, that it takes PEI with it?

Hello,

I am usually not printing ABS, but now I need print part, which is long (~150mm), narrow (~5mm) and high (~50mm) made from ABS. It started to warp badly, so I tried:

Skirt, cleaning with JAR, cleaning with new IPA, glue stick, playing with the first layer. On Prusa Mk3S and Prusa Mini. Two different ABS's. Right now, my best result is, that the part seems to stay sticked on the PEI, but when I remove it, it again is not straight on the bottom...and the PEI sheet is obviously with bubles inside now, So I suppose, that it deformed the sheet when it was printing.

What else i plan to do:

- Use TESA glue instead of Kores

- try different ABS

Another ideas how to keep it sticked?

But, even if it stay sticked to the PEI, how can I prevent its deformation/destruction?

Thanks

Posted : 30/01/2022 8:54 pm
Bob
 Bob
(@bob-2)
Reputable Member
RE: Warping so strong, that it takes PEI with it?

If your print is pulling up the PEI your z-offset may be too low. 

Is there any reason you can't use PETG for this print?  It's temperature  characteristics are nearly as good as ABS.

When you say part is not straight on the bottom I'm interpreting this as the print is lifting which suggests you need an enclosure, ABS is far more room temperature sensitive than PLA or PETG which is why people who use ABS a lot build an enclosure to keep the temperature steady.

Glue is a double edged sword, too much is worse than too little,   Angus from Maker's Muse has an entire YouTube video on this topic here:

Cheers

-Bob

Prusa I3 Mk2 kit upgraded to Mk2.5s, Ender3 with many mods, Prusa Mini kit, Prusa I3 Mk3s+ kit

Posted : 30/01/2022 9:45 pm
jsw
 jsw
(@jsw)
Famed Member
RE: Warping so strong, that it takes PEI with it?

I've done quite a bit of ABS printing on the I3 with the smooth plate and had reasonably good luck, but the coating on the plate cannot take a joke as far as flat ABS prints without a release agent.

I ruined one side of the original plate of my machine by doing just that (I was used to glass plates at our local makerspace) as I got impatient and used a metal kitchen implement to remove it, and pulled a few pieces of the coating as well.

Lesson learned!  Use a release agent, liberally if needed. I prefer Layerneer for ABS prints.

Lately, however, I had a huge piece of the coating pull off of the well-used second side of the same plate.

I wrote up the procedure to remove the old PEI sheets and re-skin the plate and posted it here. It's a pain in the @$$!  Never again.

See https://forum.prusa3d.com/forum/original-prusa-i3-mk3s-mk3-hardware-firmware-and-software-help/re-skinning-a-prusa-steel-build-plate/ if you want an exercise in masochism!  😉

You can probably re-secure any bubbled-up PEI coating by applying pressure/weight to the affected sections.  When I re-skinned the plate I printed what could best be described as a blunt scraper to help apply the new sheets, and it really helped with the adhesion and lack of bubbles.

Posted : 31/01/2022 1:51 am
David
(@david-8)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Warping so strong, that it takes PEI with it?

Well, it is also a matter of principle to me. I know it should be printable from ABS...

Regarding the first layer height, I have used in the end my own program and feeler gauge between hot bed and warm nozzle, so I should be really accurate.

In my last try, it seems that it held on the PEI, but again the bubbles poped out, see the picture.

Also the first layers, like 5-8, hard to say, seems to have a little bit higher crosssection (like 0,1-0,2mm) then the rest of the print. Any suggestions? This is something I see on almost every ABS print I have ever done.

Posted : 01/02/2022 8:07 pm
David
(@david-8)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Warping so strong, that it takes PEI with it?

So I applied some heavy weight on my bubbled and localy corrugated plates during the night. The sheet is now straight again, but the bubbles havn't disappear.

My problem is not really to remove the ABS part from the PEI, the bubbles happen during printing. I use some older Prusament ABS. I ordered now different ABS, which declares lower stress from cooling. I'll try if it helps.

Posted : 03/02/2022 8:16 am
David
(@david-8)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Warping so strong, that it takes PEI with it?

Well,

new ABS changed nothing, I have same result -> another print, another waves on the PEI sheet. I also tried higher bed temperature.

ANY suggestions how to prevent this bubbles when printing materials and shape which tend to bend? 

Posted : 09/02/2022 8:12 pm
Roberto Suarez Galan
(@roberto-suarez-galan)
New Member
RE:

Same problem here, ABS part broke mine, too. Warranty?

This post was modified 1 year ago by Roberto Suarez Galan
Posted : 11/10/2022 7:53 pm
Roberto Suarez Galan
(@roberto-suarez-galan)
New Member
RE: Warping so strong, that it takes PEI with it?
  • Same problem here, ABS part broke mine, too. Warranty?
  • I guess the 100 Celsius is too much for this bed with ABS. Warping force breaks it. 
Posted : 11/10/2022 7:57 pm
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