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Same PLA, different color, one fails the other doesn't  

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enrico.gueli
(@enrico-gueli)
Active Member
Same PLA, different color, one fails the other doesn't

Hi all,

I've assembled and run my Prusa MK3S for a few weeks now, and got great results! With the included PLA Galaxy Silver, with Prusament PETG Orange as well as with Flexfill 98A.

Then I tried PLA Pineapple Yellow; after printing a few objects, 3-4 cm big, I had major issues when printing smaller objects. The filament doesn't seem to stick as good as the other PLA, and the objects keep detaching from the heatbed. I tried changing the Z calibration (from -0.498 down to -0.610), layer height, adding/removing brims, changing the temperature (225/55 instead of standard 215/60), printing separate objects. Nothing seems to work. I switched back to Galaxy Silver, reset to known working settings, and they're now printing just fine.

What is causing such a large difference in behavior? Is it just a bad spool or did I need to change some other setting?

Thanks for any help!

Enrico

Posted : 23/04/2020 6:07 pm
JoanTabb
(@joantabb)
Veteran Member Moderator
RE: Same PLA, different color, one fails the other doesn't

Have you considered doing a temperature tower to see which temperatures work best? 
If you LITERALLY cannot get the yellow to stick on the first layer, why not start with Say Silver, let the first layer or two complete then execute the 'Change Filament' option via the LCD menu, and change to Pineapple yellow for the rest of the Temperature tower. 
Regards Joan

 

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK

Posted : 23/04/2020 6:26 pm
enrico.gueli
(@enrico-gueli)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Same PLA, different color, one fails the other doesn't

Thank you for the quick answer!

No I wasn't aware of a temperature tower. Will try one. And will try your advice to change filament after the first few layers.

I understand that the hotend temperature may be a critical parameter, and the temperature tower will help me find the ideal one. Hopefully it turns out the ideal temperature for Pineapple Yellow is different than 215 or 225.

Enrico

Posted : 24/04/2020 7:16 am
JoanTabb
(@joantabb)
Veteran Member Moderator
RE: Same PLA, different color, one fails the other doesn't

Cheers Enrico, 

there are a number of factors that affect adhesion... 
I consider bed condition the No.1 factor. For PLA, I prefer a scrupulously clean build plate...   So I wash mine with Dish soap and water, rinse with hot water  and dry immediately with Plain Paper towels...  I don't use IPA, or any other treatment on either Smooth PEI build plates or Textured Build plates.

Next is Squish / Live 'Z' adjustment, (First layer Calibration).  the standard Mesh bed Levelling i3 a 3x3 matrix which offers 9 test points, there is an optional 7x7 mesh bed levelling option available on the LCD menu's under Settings > Mesh Bed Levelling> I use the 7x7 because it gives 49 test points.   I find the Prusa First layer calibration menu option hard to use, so I use 'Jeff Jordan's' "Life Adjust 'Z' My Way"
https://forum.prusa3d.com/forum/original-prusa-i3-mk3s-mk3-assembly-and-first-prints-troubleshooting/life-adjust-z-my-way/

there is a zip file at the bottom of the first post, that gives you test files for use with a 0.4mm nozzle with P:A, PETG or ABS

Again for PLA I generally use a bed temperature of 70C

with these options, I can even get really thin prints to stick on the Prusa textured build plate

Other folks have other preferences, 
You need to find what works for you!

after you get the first layer sorted, you can try a temperature tower...  🙂 regards Joan

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK

Posted : 24/04/2020 12:32 pm
enrico.gueli
(@enrico-gueli)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Same PLA, different color, one fails the other doesn't

@joantabb

Cleaning thoroughly the plate with dishsoap and increasing the heatbed temp to 70 degrees seemed to do the trick! The first layers are now nice and sticky. Hope the rest of the print goes as well!

Cheers,
Enrico

Posted : 24/04/2020 5:02 pm
JoanTabb
(@joantabb)
Veteran Member Moderator
RE: Same PLA, different color, one fails the other doesn't

Another Old School Success! 

Lol...

Joan

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK

Posted : 24/04/2020 5:04 pm
Peter M
(@peter-m)
Noble Member
RE: Same PLA, different color, one fails the other doesn't

How to do a first layer calibration, if you do this good then filament will stick better.

Clean bed with dish soap.

extra if there is something else wrong, like bad filament:(this normally not needed).

First layer slower speed 10 mm

First layer 5 or 10 C higher temperature.

 

Small parts, you can also do a big brim attach to model, 6 or 8 lines, then parts will stick better.

Big parts can warp, here also a big brim attach to model, then it will stick better.

Posted : 24/04/2020 5:17 pm
wedgeworks
(@wedgeworks)
Active Member
RE: Same PLA, different color, one fails the other doesn't

I had the EXACT same issue with the Pineapple Yellow.

Going to try 70º bed temperature and see if I have the same success as you.

It would be nice if @prusament would give you a head's up, ya know?  🙁

Posted : 02/09/2023 6:28 pm
wedgeworks
(@wedgeworks)
Active Member
RE: Same PLA, different color, one fails the other doesn't

Update

Well, 70º and increasing the first layer thickness from .2 mm to .4 mm helped.  I still think there should be a "Note" associated with Pineapple Yellow that if one is printing a large format print (including my MK4) that one should be aware of increasing the bed temperature if the print isn't stable.

Posted by: @wedgeworks

I had the EXACT same issue with the Pineapple Yellow.

Going to try 70º bed temperature and see if I have the same success as you.

It would be nice if @prusament would give you a head's up, ya know?  🙁

 

Posted : 02/09/2023 7:26 pm
wedgeworks
(@wedgeworks)
Active Member
RE:

Update #2

HIGHLY ANNOYED.

Although this is the first issue I’ve had with MK4, I am super-torqued the Pineapple Yellow Prusament is giving me such a hard time. After adjust the bed temp and getting slightly better adhesion, I walked away from the print for a couple hours and came back the to wrinkly and de-stabilized mess in the photos.

any ideas about how to get help directly from Prusa OTHER than the chat line? 

This post was modified 6 months ago by wedgeworks
Posted : 02/09/2023 10:08 pm
Diem
 Diem
(@diem)
Illustrious Member

increasing the first layer thickness from .2 mm to .4 mm helped.

No it didn't.  Go back to 0.2mm, you need the squish for decent adhesion.

The poor adhesion allows the print to warp and that contributes to the wavy surface.

Get the print sheet thouroughly clean and perhaps slow down the first layer.  Make sure you are not printing in a draft.

Cheerio,

Posted : 03/09/2023 5:59 pm
wedgeworks
(@wedgeworks)
Active Member
RE: Same PLA, different color, one fails the other doesn't

OK, let's assume then that I slowed the first layer down to something below 40 mm/s.  Let's assume I return the first layer thickness to .2 mm.  Why, then, does the top layer on the last photo have so much wave/wrinkle?  That's not a digital artifact from the surface lighting.  That's how the layer on top of 50-ish layers.  It seems to me the lack of a flat surface is a result of the temperature of the filament exiting the extruder.  Is 215º the wrong temp for Pineapple Yellow in large flat surfaces?  As stated before, this doesn't happen with higher poly count prints.  Nor does the rippling of large sheets happen with any other color that I've cared to try (in fact, gave up on the Pineapple Yellow and printed in Hatchbox basic black with no issues.)

Thanks for responding @Diem.  Much appreciated!

Posted : 03/09/2023 10:46 pm
wedgeworks
(@wedgeworks)
Active Member
RE: Same PLA, different color, one fails the other doesn't

I should probably add:

MK4 with 5.o.0-RC firmware and 2.6.0 PrusaSlicer.  This particular print was on STRUCTURAL 0.20mm preset.

Again, this happens with no other color.

Posted : 03/09/2023 10:50 pm
Thejiral
(@thejiral)
Prominent Member
RE: Same PLA, different color, one fails the other doesn't

The bad first layer can impact also a few layers above. That is one possibility, the other is that there is overextrusion or the temperature isn't optimal. 
I would address the first layer issue first though and then look if the others issue persist or if they disappeared with the first layer issues. 

Mk3s MMU2s, Voron 0.1, Voron 2.4

Posted : 04/09/2023 8:25 am
Diem
 Diem
(@diem)
Illustrious Member

Your third picture clearly shows warping.  This is probably associated with poor adhesion so getting the first layer right should address it.  Because the part is warped the upper layers are printed on the inside of a curve, no longer truly flat, and are fractionally shorter than planned and sliced.  You are now trying to fit the upper layer filament into a smaller space, it no longer fits and so wrinkles.

As a rule of thumb, the more pigment in a filament the trickier it is to print.  Pale colours/white/bright all behave slightly differently; generic settings are made for the average filament in any range so for critical printing it is usual to tweak the settings - Next to me is an empty spool I finished yesterday with "+10" written on the label - it is there to remind me to transfer the setting to the new spool from the same batch when I open it...  this should save me recalibrating the filament.

For non-critical prints the Prusa supplied setting is usually OK.

Cheerio,

Cheerio,

Posted : 04/09/2023 1:42 pm
wedgeworks
(@wedgeworks)
Active Member
RE: Same PLA, different color, one fails the other doesn't

@diem and @thejiral, something you both said prompted me to check on something… checking the extrusion temperature. 

Guess what happened when I raised the extruder temp to 230° (which is what the preset is for Prusament PLA in PrusaSlicer? You can see the change in one of the attached photos.

yeah.  Both on the smooth and on the powder-coated beds. Nice and smooth. In a way, I’m glad I made the mistake. I’m still annoyed, but more at myself. 

I DID learn, however, that one of the things to check on a wrinkly surface is to up the extruder temp by 5°!!

Posted : 04/09/2023 5:14 pm
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