Use your printer in an enclosure? - Prusa will void your warranty
Hello everyone,
I just wanted to share an experience I just had with Prusa after I contacted them regarding deformation of a number of plastic parts on the hot end. I only print ABS so my setup is as follows:
- Prusa i3 Mk3S
- Lack Table enclosure (following the recommendations from here)
- Internal enclosure temperature control at 41degC using a temperature sensor an air recirculation fan and extraction fan
- Power supply unit relocated outside of the enclosure, Einsy inside the enclosure
after about a day of printing I found that the parts cooling fan shroud deformed and was starting to catch on prints, also the PINDA probe had sagged down slight and is now no longer sitting straight:
Anyway, I contacted Prusa support to tell them that I needed replacement parts. Only to be told that 40-45degC is too hot and that nothing will be replaced under warranty. I was pointed to the Prusa manual which said the operating temperature range of the printer is 18 to 38degC only.
You can't get reliable ABS prints with these temperatures, if you want to have decent large ABS prints you need to be at 40-45degC. How can they claim their printer is suitable for ABS printing?
Interested in what others think about my experience here...
If you are interested, email exchange with Prusa below:
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Hi,
I recently purchased and assembled the i3 Mk3S printer and I have put it to use printing ABS inside of an enclosure. Prints are usually with a hot end temperature of 245degC, bed temperature of 105 degC and an enclosure temperature of 40 to 45degC.
I have noticed a number of parts starting to deform on the printer. First it was the shroud for the part cooling fan, it deformed downwards and started catching on the prints, so I removed it. You can see in the photos below that it has been affected by the radiant heat from the hot end and partially melted.
Additionally, I've noticed that the holder of my PINDA sensor is now deforming and no longer sits vertically (photo below). What can be done to address these issues? And are other parts on the X carriage going to deform more over time?
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Regards,
Stirling
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RE: Use your printer in an enclosure? - Prusa will void your warranty
If I was Prusa I would not replace printed parts either from being used in those conditions.
If you want to print ABS - get the appropriate parts printed in PC or some other high temp material.
It is not that expensive.
RE: Use your printer in an enclosure? - Prusa will void your warranty
@robert-rmm200
Thanks Robert, is really 40-45degC that hot for an enclosure printing ABS? Here in Australia we get that temperature outside and all electronics are rated for such conditions.
For the fan shroud, the main source of heat is the bed when printing the first layer. That surface is 100-105degC plus radiant heat from the heater block (and I had a silicone cover on). I doubt having an enclosure 2 to 7 degrees warmer than the rated 38degC maximum would cause this? Then consider the case where printing ASA - the nozzle temperature needs to be 260degC, that's worse again beyond the small increase in enclosure temperature I am using.
Surely I can't be the only person that has experienced deformation of these parts and thinks that Prusa should do better with the material selection?
Thanks,
Stirling
RE: Use your printer in an enclosure? - Prusa will void your warranty
PR could have offered ABS parts in this case. I also think it‘s confusing advertisement. Saying on the one hand ABS material can be used and on the other hand the requirements for ABS printing are actually not fully met. Room for improvements in customer service.
Often linked posts:
Going small with MMU2
Real Multi Material
My prints on Instagram
RE: Use your printer in an enclosure? - Prusa will void your warranty
Not that i agree with Prusa support, but wouldn't be quicker and easier just to print this part by yourself? I know that i would certainly do that - STL's are available, so i don't see any problem. And if you mostly print ABS print it with ABS, not PETG.
I think that main problem is that when printing ABS cooling fan is mostly OFF, so this shroud doesn't cool itself as it is with PLA and PETG.
RE: Use your printer in an enclosure? - Prusa will void your warranty
@protoncek
Yes, absolutely I can print this myself but that isn't really the point. My problem is, Prusa advertises their printer as being suitable for ABS printing, but it really isn't. That's false marketing, and I would like them to acknowledge that and address it so others don't end up in this situation.
The fan shroud isn't really an issue for me. I can just replace that easily. The deformation of the PINDA sensor bracket is another story. I have to pull half the extruder assembly apart, something that I wouldn't have to do if Prusa made the part from the right material to begin with.
Thanks,
Stirling
RE: Use your printer in an enclosure? - Prusa will void your warranty
@stirlsilver
I had the same issues and ended up printing all my extruder parts in pc. My PINDA got really droopy. I would think that with a machine with an E3d hot end capable of 300c print temp that the extruder parts would come in a material suited for higher temp printing.
RE: Use your printer in an enclosure? - Prusa will void your warranty
Search forum for the max temp for E3d, this is i think 30 or 35 degrees, around the extruder.
In enclosure should not exceed 30 or 35 degrees.
Higher temp then cooling will not work very good, especially in the summer.
Maybe try to leave enclosure a little open, if room does not have a draft, or is to cold.
MK3 is made without enclosure so if you use a enclosure there is a compromise.
Make parts with higher temp filament.
RE: Use your printer in an enclosure? - Prusa will void your warranty
Search forum for the max temp for E3d, this is i think 30 or 35 degrees, around the extruder.
I've found a reference that the E3D V6 hotend is rated to 40C ambient. Any higher and the air-cooled design loses efficiency in cooling. Usually only a problem with filaments that soften at low temps like PLA, but still worth noting, not to mention that the electronics don't like the heat.
In enclosure should not exceed 30 or 35 degrees.
I think Prusa may have added to the misery by publishing the Lack enclosure blog entry back in 2018. This was early in the year, and of course, that was the summer of the extruder clicks & jams. The blog was taken as "official" and a lot of people built them for looks rather than understanding the implications.
RE: Use your printer in an enclosure? - Prusa will void your warranty
@peter-m26
We had no issues in regards to that with MK2. The parts were printed in ABS. Once Prusa switched to PETG for all parts then we started to see issues with printers without the sock. I consider that as one of the quality decreases we got with MK3.
Often linked posts:
Going small with MMU2
Real Multi Material
My prints on Instagram
RE: Use your printer in an enclosure? - Prusa will void your warranty
I've had the same issue with my MK3S (sagging fan shroud and part of extruder-body/cover near PINDA holder) although I have never used an enclosure - merely printed with higher temp materials, but always within printer specs. So the enclosure can not be the culprit here; these parts fail even without using one.
Prusa should replace those parts for you at the very minimum. They should make the extruder plastic parts out of polycarbonate so they actually withstand the temperatures. I've replaced my fan shroud with a PC print and it appears to work better.
RE: Use your printer in an enclosure? - Prusa will void your warranty
Even with a sock I was suffering fan shroud deformation (Stock and skelestruder designs) I've reprinted in ABS and it seems to be holding up much better so far.
RE: Use your printer in an enclosure? - Prusa will void your warranty
Even with a sock I was suffering fan shroud deformation (Stock and skelestruder designs) I've reprinted in ABS and it seems to be holding up much better so far.
Prusa's official statement:
Note that this part can't be printed from PETG, but at least from ABS or Polycarbonate as it has to sustain high temps.
See here.
RE: Use your printer in an enclosure? - Prusa will void your warranty
Well from the referenced document on the MK3 to MK3S Upgrade kit, "Fan-shroud (printed from ABS and included)".
Sounds to me like if you bought any flavor of MK3S, you should get the ABS fan shroud.
Worth chatting with CS about. (Still easier to print your own, but whatever).
RE: Use your printer in an enclosure? - Prusa will void your warranty
That's too bad. I have the MK3s upgrade that shipped with the MMU2. I have just finished printing a lot of ABS using the lack enclosure as well. I do not control the temperature within, just shut the doors. I use the Prusa ABS filament profile with no changes. My hot end looks like no high temp damage and the PINDA is OK as well. My ambient is typically around 70F.
Maybe there is something else about your setup that caused the high heat?
RE: Use your printer in an enclosure? - Prusa will void your warranty
Somewhat related question: Is there any easy way to tell what the fan shroud is made of?
Specifically - how do you know if it is currently ABS.
RE: Use your printer in an enclosure? - Prusa will void your warranty
Just to clarify - I did get an ABS fan shroud with my upgrade kit, but I was running custom extruder designs to work around the optical filament sensor problems and did not have any ABS to print with. PETG holds up okay if you're only doing PLA, but as soon as you deal with PETG bed temps it deforms too much.