Prusa XL.. hold on, wait a minute  

RE: Prusa XL.. hold on, wait a minute

If I look at the pictures the dimensions don't look excessive at all, relative to the build volume. The 80x80x90cm machine dimensions have to include the side mounted spools. The top dimensions are a consequence of the design decisions for the tool changer and the filament path. Not unheard of either for these kind of machines.

Now, those side dimensions, if they really include the space needed for spools, could be easily cut down when moving the spools somewhere else.

Generally, if you are not totally keen on the multimaterial via tool changer for more than 2 materials or the size of the printer, looking for alternatives might be worthwile. If all you need is a double extrusion system. There exist a wide range of double extrusion printers of decent quality in an equivalent price range or lower in all sorts of sizes. I personally would hope that after the XL Prusa is going to focus on a next generation core xy printer of more moderate size, comparable to the size of an Mk3s. But that is just my wish, I have no idea what they are aiming for next.

RE: Prusa XL.. hold on, wait a minute

There is no announcement, but I suspect you might see some of the XL features on the Mk4 or what it is called in 1-2 years.  That is a guess.  I have no inside info.  

Prusa already have a smaller coreXY machine in development. It's reasonable to expect some features from this and the XL to come together.

https://afs.prusa3d.com/

Cheerio,

RE: Prusa XL.. hold on, wait a minute

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I understand, this new 'farm' machine is not actually available yet and probably will not be until long after the XL is shipping.

RE: Prusa XL.. hold on, wait a minute

Just speculating, but I think that if there’s a Prusa MK4 in the future, it won’t be radically different from the current MK3 series. Therefore no coreXY, no segmented hot bed, no multiple toolheads.  For sure that MK4 will have updated electronics (it was time), possibly a modular extruder design for easier maintenance and maybe automatic first layer calibration as the XL.

End of speculation, back to the XL “suspense”..

RE:

I understand, this new 'farm' machine is not actually available yet

Apparently availability and pricing will be announced in the autumn, see the first half of:

And note that it shares some XL technology.

Cheerio,

RE: Prusa XL.. hold on, wait a minute

Posted by: @artur5

Just speculating, but I think that if there’s a Prusa MK4 in the future, it won’t be radically different from the current MK3 series. Therefore no coreXY, no segmented hot bed, no multiple toolheads.  For sure that MK4 will have updated electronics (it was time), possibly a modular extruder design for easier maintenance and maybe automatic first layer calibration as the XL.

End of speculation, back to the XL “suspense”..

We do not know how much tech the two printers share.  It is clear they do share some.  

RE: Prusa XL.. hold on, wait a minute

My impression is that Prusa is shifting their design emphasis from the classic cartesian RepRap X-Y design to the CoreXY two-motor one-belt design.

The RepRap design is mature and will still be viable for some time, but I get the vibes (for lack of a better term) from Prusa that CoreXY will be the direction in which they are headed.

IIAC they will still be using threaded shafts for the Z motion, as opposed to (four?) motors and belts in your Voron machines.

RE: Prusa XL.. hold on, wait a minute

Posted by: @jsw

My impression is that Prusa is shifting their design emphasis from the classic cartesian RepRap X-Y design to the CoreXY two-motor one-belt design.

The RepRap design is mature and will still be viable for some time, but I get the vibes (for lack of a better term) from Prusa that CoreXY will be the direction in which they are headed.

IIAC they will still be using threaded shafts for the Z motion, as opposed to (four?) motors and belts in your Voron machines.

I think that is conjecture.  I do not see any reason they would move the mini or MK3S to a CoreXY, but time will tell. I could talk myself into the Mk3S, but not the mini.  

RE: Prusa XL.. hold on, wait a minute

Yes, it is conjecture.  😉

LOL, good a guess as any, I think.

RE: Prusa XL.. hold on, wait a minute

Posted by: @cwbullet

 

Posted by: @jsw

My impression is that Prusa is shifting their design emphasis from the classic cartesian RepRap X-Y design to the CoreXY two-motor one-belt design.

The RepRap design is mature and will still be viable for some time, but I get the vibes (for lack of a better term) from Prusa that CoreXY will be the direction in which they are headed.

IIAC they will still be using threaded shafts for the Z motion, as opposed to (four?) motors and belts in your Voron machines.

I think that is conjecture.  I do not see any reason they would move the mini or MK3S to a CoreXY, but time will tell. I could talk myself into the Mk3S, but not the mini.  

I'll be amazed if the AFS printer isn't the basis for the Mk4. They have a development basis and at the price point the Mk4 will be at I don't think a bed slinger will cut it anymore. They are now competing with Bambu Lab and the X1C. Prusa need to up their game with the Mk4 or they will lose customers.

RE: Prusa XL.. hold on, wait a minute

I would also think that they may retire the 'I3' and 'Mk(x)' designations, as corexy would be a significant departure from the original Reprap-Mendel based design.

If I remember my history, the Reprap-Darwin used a similar bed elevator system, but with a (simpler?) X-Y mechanism, similar to the Ultimaker.

RE: Prusa XL.. hold on, wait a minute

Posted by: @jsw

I would also think that they may retire the 'I3' and 'Mk(x)' designations, as corexy would be a significant departure from the original Reprap-Mendel based design.

If I remember my history, the Reprap-Darwin used a similar bed elevator system, but with a (simpler?) X-Y mechanism, similar to the Ultimaker.

This my thoughts exactly.  If they change to a CoreXY, it won't be an I3 or Mk4.  I will have to be an entirely different printer.  

RE: Prusa XL.. hold on, wait a minute

I tend to agree with others above that Prusa needs to up its game for the Mk3s market. They are competing there now with Bambulab X1C and co. I do think that they still have a bit of time to prepare though. While the X1C is fantastic fresh air in the market that felt as it was technologically stagnating, it still seems to have a number of teething problems and I would think that they will need to get to the 2nd iteration to get to a level where their printer is not only very innovative and good but also reliably so with few to no bugs or issues in hardware and software. Until then, Prusa can still score points with reliability of the Mk3s. But I do think that this is borrowed time and Prusa should not waste it, unless they choose to slowly retreat from that market segment and want to focus more on education printers and more upscale "prosumer" printers like the XL and machines for business in the lower price range (for business machines).

Prusa has certainly broadened its base already that even if the Mk3s segment should get into troubles, the company won't be doomed, but it would still hurt. 

RE: Prusa XL.. hold on, wait a minute

Is Bambu Lab actually shipping printers?

Last I knew they were a Kickstarter type of thing.

RE:

Posted by: @jsw

Is Bambu Lab actually shipping printers?

Last I knew they were a Kickstarter type of thing.

They are a Kickstarter and so far, only a few influencers have gotten a printer.  The Mk3 and Prusa are far from doomed.  Competition is good for the market and Prusa will meet the challenge.  

RE:

They are kickstarter thing. However, to my knowledge, they have shipped already to all kickstarter backers, that means way more than just influencers should be seeing that machine already in real life. Regular sales have not started yet as far as I know but I would expect that it isn't long anymore until they will be selling via Amazon. Maybe I am mislead but they do seem to be one of the few serious kickstarter campaigns with the means and the intent to go mass market (as much as one can be with 3d printers). 

I agree that Prusa isn't doomed. But things might get less cozy in the market soon. 

EDIT: According to Bambulab "online shop pre-orders" are "coming soon" and one can already sign up for a notification.

RE:

I'm not in the market for yet another printer, but curiosity got to me and I checked out the Bambu Labs machine, both on their main web site and the Kickstarter page.

It seems to be about the same size (build volume) as the Prusa I3 and more or less the same price point.

They do hype up the multi-color thing, but it looks like it's not a true dual extruder thing but a filament changer, similar to the MMU devices.  It took a while to wade through the hype on the web site to finally get to a page of specs.

They have a video loop showing the ease of break-away supports on their machine, and it looks like they are using some kind of interface material (maybe PETg with PLA) on the top support surfaces to facilitate this.

I thought that their 'spaghetti detector' was amusing.  😉

They say that availability is July of this year.

RE:

The multicolour thing is in my opinion the least interesting aspect of the Bambulab X1 and you can also buy a version entirely without it. It has some nice new ideas but in the end it seems just as finicky as other multimaterial units. That is not saying it is not a nice thing to have if one is involved enough to make it work reliably but it is at odds with the "it just prints" concept they want to realize here. 

The really cool thing is in my opinion to get a core XY printer at that price point with superio side cooling (with big blower) additionally to the print head fans. It is the extensive autocalibration feature that does not only calibrate a form of linear adavance but also printer resonance. The latter is something the Prusa can't do without hooking up a Pi 3B at least (and possible changing to Klipper altogether) but is a really powerful thing to get rid almost entirely of ghosting. 

The problem the X1 is that a number of features still don't work as well as they should, even though the essential features do seem to work already fairly good. But stuff like the spaghetti detection appears to still have an unacceptable fail rate for example. 

EDIT: In my opinion they should have opted for a dual extruder instead of that multimaterial unit. That would have made the printer much more interesting to me. But then, I am not a potential customer right now anyway. I am busy entering the torture land of resin printing right now 😉