PrusaSlicer requires really low Flowrate to not overextrude?
 
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[Solved] PrusaSlicer requires really low Flowrate to not overextrude?  

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TeachingTheDetails
(@teachingthedetails)
Eminent Member
PrusaSlicer requires really low Flowrate to not overextrude?

Issue is as follows:

With a 100% Flowrate, the printer, Cr-10s, severely overextrudes. Roughly 120% overextrusion, as a 0.68mm layerwidth becomes 1.5mm layerwidth. With a Flowrate of 0.4, it prints much better. 

The Cr-10s has calibrated e-steps and calibrated flowrate. When doing the extrusion test of extruding 100mm, it extrudes 100mm. 

Are there any possible reasons, why PrusaSlicer could possibly require such a low flowrate to not overextrude?

Could there be any potential issues when using such a low flowrate?

Best Answer by Neophyl:

I've had a look at the posted project and the one setting that sticks out is under Printer Settings>General>Advanced>Use Volumetric E.  Your profile has that enabled.  None of the supplied Creality profiles I have checked, including the one for the cr10s or mine have that ticked.

I'm not saying its the cause of your problems but given that setting is listed as experimental and changes the way E units are output then its worth checking with it turned OFF.

hw: PRUSA MINI+, FW 4.3.3 & Cr-10s w/ BLTouch, Ezboard, Hemerasw: PrusaSlicer 2.4, Windows 11

Posted : 29/12/2021 11:52 pm
Neophyl
(@neophyl)
Famed Member
RE: PrusaSlicer requires really low Flowrate to not overextrude?

I've got a modified cr10s (converted to direct drive) fitted with a 0.6mm nozzle and mine doesnt.  I use it for draft prints and large stuff like helmets and armour.  Then again I did my own profile way back before they started including creality printers in the wizard.

Could you save one of your projects from PS (file >save project as) and take the resulting .3mf file, zip it up and attach.  With the project file we get a snapshot of your in use settings and it makes debugging issues much easier.

I'm wondering if theres something off about the ones you are using.   What setting are you changing as the only flow rate setting in Prusa Slicer is related to ironing and not used to control extrusion for normal printing.

Posted : 30/12/2021 1:11 am
Swiss_Cheese
(@swiss_cheese)
Noble Member
Good Luck

@teachingthedetails

 

Something to keep in mind, this version (2.4.0 Final) was forced out of the womb, it was released waaaaay to early, I'm sure based on internal event's (pressure) and as far as windows is concerned, (the only version I can confirm) 10- 7 home and professional versions, it's got some real issues.

So do your best to find work rounds and try to make it work.

 

For real

 

Swiss_Cheese

The Filament Whisperer

Posted : 30/12/2021 2:20 am
Swiss_Cheese
(@swiss_cheese)
Noble Member
Good Luck

Ran out of edit time but I want to make this clear, the new features are absolutely wonderful, no problem with having them, but they came at a cost in this case, the over all functionality is flawed, I'm guessing in favor of some new implementation for version 2.5.0. However since that's a ways off this versions current level of stability is unacceptable, even from an RC point of view, and I don't appreciate it at all, people use this software to make a living and they support it with their money, and in my case my time (which is more money then you know) and my companies money.

 

I'm not a hobbyist.

 

Regards

 

Swiss_Cheese

The Filament Whisperer

Posted : 30/12/2021 2:36 am
tentaclejoe
(@tentaclejoe)
RE: PrusaSlicer requires really low Flowrate to not overextrude?

 

Posted by: @swiss_cheese

Ran out of edit time but I want to make this clear, the new features are absolutely wonderful, no problem with having them, but they came at a cost in this case, the over all functionality is flawed, I'm guessing in favor of some new implementation for version 2.5.0. However since that's a ways off this versions current level of stability is unacceptable, even from an RC point of view, and I don't appreciate it at all, people use this software to make a living and they support it with their money, and in my case my time (which is more money then you know) and my companies money.

 

I'm not a hobbyist.

 

Regards

 

Swiss_Cheese

Can you be a little more specific about what the problems are here?

Posted : 30/12/2021 3:44 am
Swiss_Cheese
(@swiss_cheese)
Noble Member
RE: PrusaSlicer requires really low Flowrate to not overextrude?

@tentaclejoe

 

Well, Joe I do not use this software like the average hobbyist, I'm a bit bit more hardcore. If your not seeing the problems then I would say don't worry about it, I spent valuable time on GitHub raising issues, only to see nothing done, or to be told "we might be implementing that in the 2.5 but no promises" and frankly don't feel like spelling it out here. I've done my due diligence.

If you were seeing the problems, then it most likely matters to you, otherwise I can't help by wasting more of my time.

 

I spent hours posting on GitHub.

 

Regards

 

Swiss_Cheese

The Filament Whisperer

Posted : 30/12/2021 4:11 am
tentaclejoe
(@tentaclejoe)
RE: PrusaSlicer requires really low Flowrate to not overextrude?

 

Posted by: @swiss_cheese

@tentaclejoe

 

Well, Joe I do not use this software like the average hobbyist, I'm a bit bit more hardcore. If your not seeing the problems then I would say don't worry about it, I spent valuable time on GitHub raising issues, only to see nothing done, or to be told "we might be implementing that in the 2.5 but no promises" and frankly don't feel like spelling it out here. I've done my due diligence.

If you were seeing the problems, then it most likely matters to you, otherwise I can't help by wasting more of my time.

 

I spent hours posting on GitHub.

 

Regards

 

Swiss_Cheese

Okay gotcha. Yes I'm a total hobbyist and it's been working great for me. 

Posted : 30/12/2021 5:01 am
Vojtěch Bubník
(@vojtech-bubnik)
Admin
RE: PrusaSlicer requires really low Flowrate to not overextrude?

@swiss_cheese

> Something to keep in mind, this version (2.4.0 Final) was forced out of the womb

Frankly I don't understand what you are talking about. In my opinion PrusaSlicer 2.4.0 is pretty stable and functional. Surely there are some bugs and there always will be bugs. There are bugs in any software and releasing a bug free software means not releasing at all.

 

Posted : 30/12/2021 5:39 am
Swiss_Cheese
(@swiss_cheese)
Noble Member
RE: PrusaSlicer requires really low Flowrate to not overextrude?

@vojtech-bubnik

 

I wrote a really long post in response to'

Frankly I don't understand what you are talking about. In my opinion PrusaSlicer 2.4.0 is pretty stable and functional. Surely there are some bugs and there always will be bugs. There are bugs in any software and releasing a bug free software means not releasing at all.

But I Backspaced it.

I'm not here to raise issues with the software for the development staff, I was trying to impart something I've learned to another user of the software after years of working in software development, and years of using Slicer. That is, try to find a way around the problem. You see the thing is, it's needed "now" and if it's not working correctly you might try something different, instead of the intended way.

I'm not unappreciative of the efforts you and your team put towards the software, make no mistake about that. However we have to move on as users, and find ways to get the job done. It's not mine or his job to make the software work properly (as intended) and at least in my case it is my job to make sure I can get the job done. This to me means figuring out why 2.4.0 final sometimes crashes, freezing at 70% Infill on my Windows machines etc,, (yes there's more) I'm not getting into that here. I give my time to the software on GitHub, and I give it to the users not just my time which is very valuable, but my money to help others, and will in the future, however in my experience and opinion (stable) it's not, I'm spending a lot more time crashing in 2.4.0 final then any version before it. I expect you to be proud of the accomplishments made to the software, it has a great potential, I am forced to be realistic about it, I don't have time in my life to create another fork and start building it, this will not prevent me form expressing my opinion about it's current state and my experience to fellow users.

 

But I'm sure that's on me, because what do I know?

 

Sorry vojtech-bubnik if this felt offensive to you, I use the software that you helped develop in a very strong manner, and I find ways to make it work in spite of it's short comings (I understand about Bugs), I have no choice at this point but to make it work.

 

Regards

 

Swiss_Cheese

 

 

 

 

The Filament Whisperer

Posted : 30/12/2021 8:32 am
Vojtěch Bubník
(@vojtech-bubnik)
Admin
RE: PrusaSlicer requires really low Flowrate to not overextrude?

> figuring out why 2.4.0 final sometimes crashes, freezing at 70% Infill on my Windows machines etc,, (yes there's more)

We are aware of no such issues. The only major issue I am aware of after the 2.4.0 release is a hang-up on some Windows machines on start-up, likely due to some ATI Radeon graphics cards. If we were aware of such an issue, we would strive to gather data and try to work it around. However the issue was reported after the final release while it was introduced in beta2. It seems that nobody affected by the issue tested beta2 and later releases after the final.

Also it seems to me that PrusaSlicer 2.3.3 was already good enough for most users, thus people tend to wait for others to test the alphas and betas until the final is out. It is really out of our hands whether there are computers out there that our software does not run on.

Posted : 30/12/2021 9:27 am
TeachingTheDetails
(@teachingthedetails)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: PrusaSlicer requires really low Flowrate to not overextrude?

Sorry, meant extrusion multiplier, not flowrate. On the Cr-10s it's called flowrate, in PS it's extrusion multiplier. 

Attached is a 3mf file for such a problematic print with a manually created 0.6mm nozzle profile. However, even using the MK3S 0.6mm profile (Cr-10s with Hemera should allow for a similar profile) and simply changing the build volume and G-Code to include a BLtouch routine leads to the same overextrusion. 

xyzCalibration_cube_overextruding

Previously, I had used the 0.4mm nozzle with PS 2.4 and it had a normal extrusion rate. This weird issue only occurred after switching to a 0.6mm nozzle. 

hw: PRUSA MINI+, FW 4.3.3 & Cr-10s w/ BLTouch, Ezboard, Hemerasw: PrusaSlicer 2.4, Windows 11

Posted : 30/12/2021 9:45 am
Swiss_Cheese
(@swiss_cheese)
Noble Member
RE: PrusaSlicer requires really low Flowrate to not overextrude?

@vojtech-bubnik

 

I tested all the Alpha's and I Tested all the Beta's accept Beta 2 because it couldn't make it past my first level testing (Win7) I know why.

I'm not a fan of the data collection, however I took my time to report it, All be it in a lesser way. (Meaning here and not GitHub)I lost a lot of test time waiting for the next release on that one, and I resumed my testing on the Beta3 all the way through the RC's. I made reports, some dealt with some not, that time is over for me now, I have to move on, I took time out of my personal life to help, so I'm not negligent, I tried with good effort.

I don't mean woe is me, I mean, I think I could have used my time better.

 

Here's an excerpt from the really long post I mentioned that I back spaced earlier.

We are currently stuck between a rock and a hard place. We have to use the older version, the more stable version 2.3.3, to do our work, however we are trying to switch over since this release of 2.4.0 final, and right off the top we are having issues with getting stuck on certain projects at infill 70%, (I should mention this is in the progress bar) after pressing "slice" not caused by using 70% infill, it represents a complete freeze on our windows systems, if we don't shut slicer down fast after it freezes, and you go to shut the program down to the point of the end task dialogue, the program disappears but continues to run at 100 CPU usages in the background, to the point that we can barley open the task manager to shut it down on i7 3Ghz + quad-core machines running dedicated Nvidia GPU's. (That's just one problem, there's more). I've taken to opening the task manager so it's ready to kill Prusa Slicer when it freezes I've never had to consider doing this before, now it's the first thing I do when I go to use the program, and I save after every single change (because there's no telling when it's going to happen). I didn't have these problems with the alpha's and Beta's. for me it seemed things started going wrong mostly with the RC's I did however go back and test the issues that I did find in the earlier releases to see if I could find out when the originated.

 

Anyway that's it, I have no more time for this, I gave my time I did it preemptively, and proactively.

 

I have to start working now and do what I can. I guess others will have to make the reports or not.

I do like the 2.4 features, I just wish I could use them professionally, for now it's a waiting game.

 

Regards

 

Swiss_Cheese

The Filament Whisperer

Posted : 30/12/2021 11:00 am
Swiss_Cheese
(@swiss_cheese)
Noble Member
RE: PrusaSlicer requires really low Flowrate to not overextrude?

@teachingthedetails

 

Sorry it was not my intention to hijack the thread, I'll try to offer help tomorrow it's 3Am

The Filament Whisperer

Posted : 30/12/2021 11:01 am
Neophyl
(@neophyl)
Famed Member
RE: PrusaSlicer requires really low Flowrate to not overextrude?

I've had a look at the posted project and the one setting that sticks out is under Printer Settings>General>Advanced>Use Volumetric E.  Your profile has that enabled.  None of the supplied Creality profiles I have checked, including the one for the cr10s or mine have that ticked.

I'm not saying its the cause of your problems but given that setting is listed as experimental and changes the way E units are output then its worth checking with it turned OFF.

Posted : 31/12/2021 12:32 pm
Vojtěch Bubník
(@vojtech-bubnik)
Admin
RE: PrusaSlicer requires really low Flowrate to not overextrude?

@Swiss_Cheese

If PrusaSlicer 2.4.0 gets stuck while slicing and eats up excessive amount of RAM, we need to know about it, ideally as a github ticket with steps and 3MF to reproduce. If we were aware of such a critical issue, we would not release the final.

Posted : 31/12/2021 4:00 pm
TeachingTheDetails
(@teachingthedetails)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: PrusaSlicer requires really low Flowrate to not overextrude?

@Neophyl

Without "use volumetric E", it prints fine with an "extrusion multiplier" of 1, again.

Interesting. 

hw: PRUSA MINI+, FW 4.3.3 & Cr-10s w/ BLTouch, Ezboard, Hemerasw: PrusaSlicer 2.4, Windows 11

Posted : 02/01/2022 4:07 pm
bobstro
(@bobstro)
Illustrious Member
RE: PrusaSlicer requires really low Flowrate to not overextrude?
Posted by: @teachingthedetails

[...] Without "use volumetric E", it prints fine with an "extrusion multiplier" of 1, again.

I played with volumetric E in an older version of PrusaSlicer. IIRC, it's meant to be used with the autospeed feature. There are morsels of notes out there to be found, but it's not well documented. It sounded promising, but I didn't get any good results with it.

 

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing

and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan

Posted : 10/01/2022 4:07 pm
TeachingTheDetails
(@teachingthedetails)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: PrusaSlicer requires really low Flowrate to not overextrude?

Yes, I didn't realize, that option also had to be enabled in the printer firmware for it to work. And TH3D completely disabled volumetric print speed in their Ezboard firmware. Since I couldn't be bothered to setup a new Marlin firmware so far, it's back to linear speed 😀

hw: PRUSA MINI+, FW 4.3.3 & Cr-10s w/ BLTouch, Ezboard, Hemerasw: PrusaSlicer 2.4, Windows 11

Posted : 10/01/2022 9:23 pm
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