Organic supports not printing on the first layer
 
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Zexsudel
(@zexsudel)
New Member
Organic supports not printing on the first layer

I've tried the 2.6 alpha for the organic supports but all the models I've tested the supports don't print on the first layer, but rather start on the second. I get this is helpful for later layers to make sure there is a space between the model and the supports but for the first layer I need it to actually touch the plate so they stick. With them printing a layer up they don't adhere to the bed and just turn into strings the extruder drags around. 

I don't see anything in the setting to force the supports to start on layer 1 instead of 2. 

Does anybody have a suggestion for getting them to start actually on the bed? 

Posted : 26/03/2023 7:20 pm
JoanTabb
(@joantabb)
Veteran Member Moderator
RE: Organic supports not printing on the first layer

Is that 2.6.0 Alpha 5?

Could you please save a project that demonstrates this issue, then Zip Compress the  file, and attach the file on here, so that we can look at the issue you are seeing

regards Joan

Barrel with organic supports

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK

Posted : 26/03/2023 7:36 pm
Zexsudel
(@zexsudel)
New Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Organic supports not printing on the first layer

Lowest_poly_thinker_easier_to_print

It is with the alpha 5 version. I've attached a project that shows the problem. You can see layer one there is no support but layer 2 there. 

Posted : 26/03/2023 7:51 pm
JoanTabb
(@joantabb)
Veteran Member Moderator
RE: Organic supports not printing on the first layer

Hi Zexsudel

 

try resetting  your  XY separation between an object and it's support, to the default value

regards Joan

 

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK

Posted : 26/03/2023 9:30 pm
Zexsudel
(@zexsudel)
New Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Organic supports not printing on the first layer

That seemed to have fixed it. Now to give the print a whirl. Thanks for the help. 

Posted : 26/03/2023 9:53 pm
JoanTabb
(@joantabb)
Veteran Member Moderator
RE: Organic supports not printing on the first layer

My Pleasure. 

I never would have guessed that fix, without the .3mf file. 

regards Joan

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK

Posted : 26/03/2023 10:22 pm
James
(@james-26)
Active Member
RE: Organic supports not printing on the first layer

Hi Joan,

I came across this post ... unfortunately, it did not fix my issue. I have organic supports that start on Layer 4 and above ... so obviously missing the connection to the print bed.

Changing the XY separation made no difference.

Any thoughts of what else I can try ?

Thanks.

Posted : 18/01/2024 5:40 pm
JoanTabb
(@joantabb)
Veteran Member Moderator
RE: Organic supports not printing on the first layer

Can you please save your project file for this print, then Zip Compress the file and post a copy to help us see what is happening? 

regards Joan

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK

Posted : 18/01/2024 5:59 pm
James
(@james-26)
Active Member
RE:

Hi Joan,

Please find a simple example attached showing the issue.

(my original file is a bit more complex) 

Do let me know what you think and how I can tweak my settings to fix this.

Thanks in advance !

floating_organic_support

 

This post was modified 6 months ago by James
Posted : 18/01/2024 9:38 pm
JoanTabb
(@joantabb)
Veteran Member Moderator
RE: Organic supports not printing on the first layer

do you need 8.5mm retraction? large retractions often cause blocked nozzles on direct extrusion printer like the mk3 series.
i normally use 0.4mm retraction with PLA filament
if  you have adhesion issues, have you tried 70C on the build plate? do you need to expand the first layer of supports, reducing that setting could reduce print time

i see you are using a generic box, to lift the model off the build plate, does it need to be so big?  a smaller block would improve print time.
  
you appear to be using generic cylinders as support blockers  with Auto generate supports... which causes a lot of supports
have you considered using support enforcers without the Auto Generate Supports option? and making the support enforcers small enough to protect the tubular holes?
or perhaps use paint on supports for the same purpose?

have you considered combining infill every two layers? or perhaps every 3 layers, to save print time?

if you get strings across the  holes in the model, have you considered setting 'do not cross perimeters?

 

your original model had a print time of 4Hours 42minutes
the model I have revised has a print time of 2 hours 22 minutes with about 40% saving in filament

I hope these suggestions help. regards Joan

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK

Posted : 19/01/2024 4:04 am
James
(@james-26)
Active Member
RE: Organic supports not printing on the first layer

Hi Joan,

Thanks for the suggestions ... will definitely take them on-board. (and Yes, I added a block to lift up my model that has a curved bottom surface ...)

With regards to this model, I just quickly put together an example to illustrate the organic support issue that I am seeing.

i.e. missing organic supports on lower layers ... and suddenly having them appear on higher layers (floating ???)

Please see the picture below.

Any ideas how i can tweak the support settings to fix this ?

Thanks.

 

 

Posted : 19/01/2024 9:49 am
JoanTabb
(@joantabb)
Veteran Member Moderator
RE: Organic supports not printing on the first layer

Organic supports are hollow. By design. You appear to be getting the perimeters as normal. Then they fill in as they get taller. 

You may be more comfortable with 'Snug' supports

Regards Joan

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK

Posted : 19/01/2024 11:23 am
JoanTabb
(@joantabb)
Veteran Member Moderator
RE: Organic supports not printing on the first layer

If the model was closer to the build plate. The organic supports would be more solid

Regards Joan

 

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK

Posted : 19/01/2024 11:26 am
James
(@james-26)
Active Member
RE: Organic supports not printing on the first layer

Hi Joan,

First of all ... Many Thanks for the very quick reply.

I understand that the organic supports are hollow. However, in this case, they are hollow AND "without feet".

Looks like a bug in the slicer software ?

As you can see in the picture above, the organic supports are "suddenly appearing" from Layer 10 onwards ... 

As there is nothing in the previous layers (e.g clearly missing in Layer 2 to 4) ... how can they stay on the print bed ?

They are just "floating" elements that will turn into a "mini" birds nest very quickly and will definitely not support the model at that location.

I can convert to Snug or even Rectilinear supports ... but do hope i can get Organic supports to work.

Any thoughts ?

Thanks again ... =)

Posted : 19/01/2024 11:39 am
Neophyl
(@neophyl)
Illustrious Member
RE: Organic supports not printing on the first layer

Those floating organic supports are a known issue.  Was reported ages ago.  For example from Feb last year https://github.com/prusa3d/PrusaSlicer/issues/9601    

Posted : 19/01/2024 12:47 pm
James
(@james-26)
Active Member
RE:

Thanks Neophyl ... looks like i just have to wait for a new slicer SW...

if there are any workarounds ... please do let us know !

This post was modified 6 months ago 2 times by James
Posted : 19/01/2024 2:16 pm
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