Should I return this printer?
I have the Core One L about a week now. I did print some ASA objects but I get more and more problems:
1
When the Y-axis moves I hear some rattling that seems to get worse each day.
2
When starting a print it does some homing. The printer head bounces alternating into the X and Y end-stops.
The number of time it does this gets more and more. I think about 20 times is no exception. Some times it gives a failure and it starts over.
3
For nozzle cleaning the nozzle is touching the build plate to clean it. But the number of times it does this is also getting more and more.
The last time I started a print it did do this 32 times and then gave a failure. I pressed ignore and the print is started.
I do not dare to use the retry because some other thread in this forum is about a problem where the nozzle in this case scratches the build plate.
4
When it does bed leveling some times the nozzle probes the bed a few times per point. And also this amount is getting larger. I had some points sampled 10 times!
So the problems are getting worse and worse. What should I do? Return this printer?
RE:
I have the Core One L about a week now. I did print some ASA objects but I get more and more problems:
1
When the Y-axis moves I hear some rattling that seems to get worse each day.
2
When starting a print it does some homing. The printer head bounces alternating into the X and Y end-stops.
The number of time it does this gets more and more. I think about 20 times is no exception. Some times it gives a failure and it starts over.
3
For nozzle cleaning the nozzle is touching the build plate to clean it. But the number of times it does this is also getting more and more.
The last time I started a print it did do this 32 times and then gave a failure. I pressed ignore and the print is started.
I do not dare to use the retry because some other thread in this forum is about a problem where the nozzle in this case scratches the build plate.
4
When it does bed leveling some times the nozzle probes the bed a few times per point. And also this amount is getting larger. I had some points sampled 10 times!So the problems are getting worse and worse. What should I do? Return this printer?
I'll give you keywords to search the forum for a quick answer. Hopefully someone else has more time to chime in:
- most likely what you hear are electronic artifacts, not the actual bearings (no rule without exception, "... or your bearings are busted". But it's unlikely. They'll last for hundreds of kilometers, usually). Just ignore the noise, check out "stealth mode" or experiment with print speed to avoid the critical frequencies.
- homing: Your gantry is not square and / or belts are tightened unevenly. Please read up on the topic, it's crucial to operating a Core One.
- Nozzle cleaning: Possibly an electrical glitch (you can disable the heater that interferes in software, read up on the forum). Possibly debris or dripping filament. Check that your nozzle is tight (the thumb screws). It takes a bit more torque than may be intuitive. Also (!!) check that cables to the hotend do not cause direct mechanical force on the heater element - run them in a small loop or the like, not a straight line under tension - as this confuses the sensor.
Regarding your final question, you decide. Those are all known problems with known solutions, and support will help you with a genuine hardware defect.
Should you bother with it? You decide. One option is to figure it out once now, then you can still fix it a decade down the road, when today's hyper-modern competitors are long recycled and forgotten. Not saying I would buy another Prusa printer myself (OK, no one asked...) but I got one and understand its quirks and it prints reliably - if noisily.
RE: Should I return this printer?
My only experience with CoreXY printers is the Core One. I did spend a Saturday afternoon with an H2D. Curious though is lack of a squared gantry that is causing homing issues common to CoreXY setups or is this just a Prusa thing?
The best place for help with a new printer - or a new-built kit, is Prusa Support via chat (bottom right of most main Prusa website pages), you will need the serial number from the back of the printer.
- the machines are tested and leave the factory in good order but Prusa have no direct control over couriers and baggage handlers so sometimes they are subject to rough treatment during delivery; support will help you get it going properly or even arrange return/repair if needed but also they can sometimes trace poor handling hotspots and troubleshoot delivery with the shipping companies...
Cheerio,
RE: Should I return this printer?
- the machines are tested and leave the factory in good order but Prusa have no direct control over couriers and baggage handlers so sometimes they are subject to rough treatment during delivery; support will help you get it going properly or even arrange return/repair if needed but also they can sometimes trace poor handling hotspots and troubleshoot delivery with the shipping companies...
I no longer buy this. Other companies manage to pack their printers such that they can be safely shipped. For Prusa, we have seen so many reports on Core Ones which arrived in undamaged boxes, but with the printer frame bent and the panels smashed. And besides, how would shipping cause a load cell to work unreliably? That's a design or manufacturing flaw.
Unpack and Print!
5 minutes from unpacking to first printUnpack the printer, click the display in place, and plug it in. That’s it. No self-tests, calibrations, or tinkering. The machine manages everything on its own, including setting up the best print environment inside the chamber. Simply download something cool from Printables.com, process it with EasyPrint, and see it being printed instantly.
That's Prusa's sales pitch for the Core One L, straight from the online catalog page. They know that the market is shifting away from the tinkerers and they need to deliver reliable, easy-to-use printers. They just can't deliver on the promise.
To the OP: Yes, I would return the printer right now.
we have seen so many reports on Core Ones which arrived in undamaged boxes, but with the printer frame bent and the panels smashed.
We have seen perhaps two or three a month - Prusa are shipping over 10,000 printers a month - that's a tiny proportion arriving damaged.
Do other printer manufacturers somehow have 0% transit damage?
And besides, how would shipping cause a load cell to work unreliably? That's a design or manufacturing flaw.
- or violent handling shaking a connection loose.
Cheerio,
RE: Should I return this printer?
First thing I would do is contact our support via Livechat. At the first glance the rattling and homing might be fixed by calibrating belts and checking if there is no obstacle blocking the axis. And nozzle problems might be caused by the material (ASA might be tricky and if the nozzle is dirty from it, it can cause some problems).
But our support will help you with your issues as much as they can.
RE: Should I return this printer?
I measured the belt tension and it was to low. Didn't expect this to be so easy with the Prusa app that just measures the resonating frequency. I adjusted the tension (also very easy).
Homing seems normal now. Nozzle cleaning is done in a few touches. And Bed leveling is quicker, though some times it needs 2 or 3 probes per point. So I think issues 2, 3 and 4 may be solved.
Not sure about the y-motion sound yet. Will do some prints today.
Did not expect to need to do this kind of measurements and adjustments for an assembled and tested printer. But it was very easy to do. So I think Prusa should add this to the the procedure to get started.
The messages above about shipping problems do scare me a bit. Because these loose belts may indicate bad treatment during shipping. I hope there are no other things wrong with the printer. What things would be wise to check?
RE:
The issue you are addressing are not shipment related, they are assembly. We've seen numerous poor assembly issues on this forum along and clear lack of QAQC. Finally one of thier reviewers told the truth in a video, instead of skipping over all the bad parts like most of them.
Core One L MMU3, MK3S
RE: Should I return this printer?
I measured the belt tension and it was to low. Didn't expect this to be so easy with the Prusa app that just measures the resonating frequency. I adjusted the tension (also very easy).
Homing seems normal now. Nozzle cleaning is done in a few touches. And Bed leveling is quicker, though some times it needs 2 or 3 probes per point. So I think issues 2, 3 and 4 may be solved.
Not sure about the y-motion sound yet. Will do some prints today.
Did not expect to need to do this kind of measurements and adjustments for an assembled and tested printer. But it was very easy to do. So I think Prusa should add this to the the procedure to get started.
The messages above about shipping problems do scare me a bit. Because these loose belts may indicate bad treatment during shipping. I hope there are no other things wrong with the printer. What things would be wise to check?
I wouldn't worry too much. With lack of belt tension, the belt settling in seems more likely than shipping damage. I can't think what should happen so belt tension drops without being obviously bent and broken. And belts do stretch over time. Most likely, the belts weren't attached properly, and you fixed that already.
What you should check is that Z axis spindles match pitch. Otherwise the print plate tilts over its Z travel, and that cannot be compensated in software.
If you have a digital spirit gauge (angle meter) just put it onto the print plate and watch it change running up and down (two runs - once between first and second spindle, then e.g. between second and third spindle).
RE: Should I return this printer?
Please report the issues via chat, they can then backtrace it to the batch numbers of the parts and people that were assembling them.
If you report it then it may help others as well.
See my GitHub and printables.com for some 3d stuff that you may like.
RE: Should I return this printer?
[...] they can then backtrace it to the batch numbers of the parts and people that were assembling them.
Do we know whether Prusa actually does this?
RE: Should I return this printer?
Do we know whether Prusa actually does this?
I think they should, they are ISO9001 certified i'm pretty sure traceability is a part of this.
---
Gert
RE: Should I return this printer?
they are ISO9001 certified i'm pretty sure traceability is a part of this.
In my experience, ISO 9001 essentially means: I can prove that I did things the way my process says they should be done. It does not guarantee that you have a great process. 😉
I mean, has anyone "traced" the ESD-related crashes and ensured that the XY motors get properly grounded? It sometimes feels like tech support, R&D and manufacturing are on opposite ends of the Prusa building. And it's a large building!
RE: Should I return this printer?
You are correct there, but, im still pretty sure traceability is a part of ISO900(1) so this should make it possible at least to find out who mounted the printer with serial number xxxx and what batches of items was mounted in that printer.
---
Gert
RE: Should I return this printer?
Yes they do this, but sometimes it is not that visible.
One of the noticeable traces was the fact of the uneven z screws with uneven screw length in some Core One Kits.
See my GitHub and printables.com for some 3d stuff that you may like.
RE: Should I return this printer?
I measured the belt tension and it was to low. Didn't expect this to be so easy with the Prusa app that just measures the resonating frequency. I adjusted the tension (also very easy).
Homing seems normal now. Nozzle cleaning is done in a few touches. And Bed leveling is quicker, though some times it needs 2 or 3 probes per point. So I think issues 2, 3 and 4 may be solved.
Not sure about the y-motion sound yet. Will do some prints today.
Did not expect to need to do this kind of measurements and adjustments for an assembled and tested printer. But it was very easy to do. So I think Prusa should add this to the the procedure to get started.
The messages above about shipping problems do scare me a bit. Because these loose belts may indicate bad treatment during shipping. I hope there are no other things wrong with the printer. What things would be wise to check?
Belive me ...you/we don't want to know what happens to our shippments sometimes - and I mean this in general, not releated to any shipping company/freight forwarders...eg. dropping a shippment/box like the Core One's on a flat side of the box, not on a corner/edge...you will not see anything from outside...
From my point of view:
I understand and I am with you when thinking "hey, this is a factory assembled device...it should work "out of the box"...". Depending where you live you maybe have some "extended" consumer rights, like we have here in the EU. Yes, you could demand to send it back, but this only works with Prusa, meaning Prusa has agree to it.
Or... you look at the bright side having a Prusa printer and do (you already did it) what you should do regularly right at the beginning: Full calibration routine including lubricating the rails, like you would do it after assembling the printer.
Afterwards you know the status of your (factory assembled) printer and you can "discuss" some issues with Prusa support. Maybe you both - you and support - can solve the issues without returning the printer and you have a functional printer after it.
When you reached the point that everything is working as it should be, you then can bring up your thoughts to support - "...ok, as the printer works after some adjustments/parts replacements now, I would like to point to the fact that I was not expecting this from a factory assembled printer...". Depending on what you and support did togehter to reach this point it depends how support is able to fit this in the matrix - "problem solved...no return (= costs a lot of money)...yes, there were some problems maybe related to assembling/shipping...let's offer him a coupon to compensate for the inconvenience...".
But, this are only my thoughts...
Core One L
RE:
@alphasigma, Prusa does offer an unconditional 60-day return period, independent of local consumer laws, no questions asked. Since the OP's printer is well within that period, returning the printer is definitely an option.
Personally I would also be in the camp of "let's iron out the kinks together, I will keep the printer and learn something in the process". I was in that spot, and reached that conclusion, during my 60-day window in April/May of last year -- when the Core One (and the kits in particular) still had quite a few rough edges.
But Prusa specifically advertises the Core One L as "prints right out of the box, no calibration needed!" (Let alone any maintenance.) So Prusa have to be prepared for customers who take their word for this and buy the printer because they just want to print, not fiddle with the machine.
RE: Should I return this printer?
A return time frame is a pain in the ass. A product needs to be close to 110% ready for that to be a benefit.
From what I have read in this thread, there is a good reason for kit printers. One benefit of kit printers is the feedback from those that assemble the printers and point out little things that they find. Things that pre-assembled printers will run into due to shipping, temperatures, who know what before being used.
Pre-assembled printers need to work 100% of the time. Need to have a way to confirm this. It should never be to a point that a customer wants to return an assembled product within days of receiving the product. That is a major issue for both the customer and the supplier.
I design and build custom systems and the amount of time that I have to take for each project is expensive. One benefit that Prusa had from kit sales was feedback on the issues that is very beneficial to any manufacturing business. Information that is far more valuable than any in-house experience.
I have set aside the money for a Core one L with the INDX head but waiting for the kit version, or 6 months after release.