RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
So you are in aggreement.
More like a misunderstanding, but yeah, I wasn't clear either.
Obviously there would need to be an intake or recirculation path, when the fans start spinning to regulate the temperature (and after the print to clean the air completely).
By "sealing" I only meant "no uncontrolled leaking from the chamber to outside of it".
Just automate the intake, done.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
Seriously this printer is atrocious. The VFAs are insane no matter what. Clearly the printer isn't ready to be sold yet. I could prolly buy some other pulley's and belts but why the fuck should I after paying Premium price for this. I've lost everything for Prusa with the core one. And Prusa don't seem to give a @$+(@ about these issues. If they cared it would have been fixed pre launch... After comming to Prusa defense for years I've finally had enough - this is why ppl buy a bamboo or similar. Pathetic
Plenty of people who are now waiting years for Bambu to fix VFA... Grass is always greener. All Core XY machines have VFA but some Core One machines have it slightly worse. Strange thing is that some people have super smooth prints without VFA. Maybe there is a quality issues with the pulleys. At least I'm glad I'm able to resolve it myself if my unit does show VFA.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
I am patiently waiting. Need to buy a second printer for a big project. How they handle this, in the short term, will determine in which direction I will be going: another c1 or h2d.
At this rate, I am not holding my breath for the CORE One anymore. I am disappointed.
I do suspect that the CORE One will be fixed in future releases, likely a combo of new hardware. Do I want to beta test that again? Or go with a proven platform?
Because let's be honest a core one S, will only mean that you are still beta testing something new.
It really is unacceptable, considering the price and current competition, that they released it so incomplete. Just goes to show that Prusa is acting a bit obnoxiously. A lot of the pre-marketing was built around mocking bambu by showing off a CORE one with Bambu wood enclosure. Looking back, and seeing the c1 in its current state, that mockery does not seem to have aged well.
That, added with the extreme vfa showed by YouTubers, isn't helping the core one at all.
This whole vfa debacle did help with one thing, it has revealed who are shills on YouTube and who are not. Its easy, all the YouTubers who blindly decided to ignore all the firmware bugs and vfas are, without a doubt, misleading users and potential buyers to buy these machines and others.
Prusa and bambu continue to lead the market, however, they have a very short window to fix this printer if they want it to stay relevant.
Honestly, I think this is a bit much. Yes there are definitely some teething issues. And yes I wish that Prusa was a bit more forthcoming in updates but that's common for companies.
Many people seem to be very happy with their Core One. A nice package with good print quality, excellent part accuracy and tolerances. But as always the problems outshine the praise. Definitely not all people experience VFA's in the same way.
I'm all for finding out possible mistakes and bugs, and calling Prusa out to fix them. But let's not go the other way and claim the Core One is some kind of train wreck because honestly I think it's a fantastic looking printer with some great merits and a few areas of improvement.
I'm happy that I can tune, fix and upgrade the machine myself. Learn how it works, understand why things go wrong when they do.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
I'm considering an H2D with a 40W laser in addition to my Core One. I'm not unhappy with my Core One. It's possible that my unit was QC'ed at Prusa, and that's why the VFA isn't due to a poor build, and the RC firmware has made a slight difference. I might be much more annoyed if I had a maker business.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
The fact is that they take too long to fix some of these issues.
I do agree, the printer does make some awesome prints, that I have never been able to achieve with either my p1p or a1.
Besides the positives, the vfa is a big negative. I think it is important to keep the pressure on. It would be a great opportunity for prusa to solve vfa as it was something that neither the p or x series where able to achieve.
It would really set them apart.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
Fully agree! Keep the pressure on Prusa and expect a solution. In parallel, I'm not afraid to order some pulleys and try a replacement. Some have done so to great effect. Almost no VFA remaining. Small effort, big result.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
It's funny looking back to when I opened this thread - Support initially told me their would be a software update a week later to fix VFA. It's obvious after several months now that this was just not true.
I asked Josef some questions about VFA and improving pre-order (paid beta tester!) experience on the reddit posts - despite being top upvoted and the questions being fairly reasonable I was completely blanked.
I am leaning towards a Bambu H2D - despite owning Prusas for years and not enjoying the walled garden of Bambu. I returned my Core One months ago and thought i'd just wait a bit to see if Prusa can instil confidence and maybe buy another fixed unit. It's become even clearer now that there is a mechanical issue with the printer that is the root cause of the VFA - anything Prusa can do now about it is paper over the cracks.
I guess there will be a Core One S revision in 12 months that tackles this - the Core One will be even more out of date by then.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
I have to reluctantly agree. So much so, that I followed the same route. Not had a chance to play with the H2D yet, but its sitting ready to be unboxed. At the moment I think I will still keep my Core One as I really do like the concept and I do hope they resolve these issues (noise/VFAs), but I am not patient enough to wait for the new gen MMU solution, and do not want to use the MMU3 with it as for me it feels like a tacked on afterthought. So as much as I hate all the filament purge/wastage etc, the H2D will fill that gap for me. I'm only a hobbyist so do not need multiple printers to be fair, so whether the H2D replaces the Core One......I don't know.....yet.......
I am leaning towards a Bambu H2D - despite owning Prusas for years and not enjoying the walled garden of Bambu. I returned my Core One months ago and thought i'd just wait a bit to see if Prusa can instil confidence and maybe buy another fixed unit. It's become even clearer now that there is a mechanical issue with the printer that is the root cause of the VFA - anything Prusa can do now about it is paper over the cracks.
I guess there will be a Core One S revision in 12 months that tackles this - the Core One will be even more out of date by then.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
@baztm the reality is that Prusa is in catch up mode.
The absolutely made a pretty damn good product. I’ve been printing with that thing day and day out for about three months now. There’s nothing hideously wrong with the Core One…. But it definitely has some teething pains then I’m pretty sure they will fix.
The real question is whether or not all of us early adopters will get hosed by Prusa and have to pay out of our pockets for any fixes?
As you put it, the garden of bambu is a closed environment where they go out of their way to prevent you from making any modifications not to mention they’re cloud environment based 100% in China… a computer security professionals nightmare.
There are always trade-offs, and the grass is always greener on the other side.
that being said, there is no doubt that they need to step it up because bambu has done an excellent job developing their product and creating an ecosystem that makes printing pretty darn easy. The only downside is that if you want to do it securely, you have to isolate the printer with a zero trust model. not to mention there’s really no open source anything, and that that’s where Prusa really shines.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
The most frustrating thing about being pushed away from Prusa and towards BBL is I love everything that Prusa stand for, and I despise everything that BBL stand for.
BBL are truly a disgusting company...everything from their anti-consumer practices, gaslighting users, their creepy af CEO, I even read recently they're trying to get a patent on horizontal slicing...I mean WTF.
But the bottom line is my 3D printer now isn't just a hobby, it's an incredibly important tool that as time goes by I rely on more and more for my business...and like any tool I won't be foolish and to stick with one brand through nostalgia.
If a different company is making a superior tool for the same (ballpark) price then that's where my money is going.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
To put it bluntly, it's simply a battle fought with unequal weapons. Josef recently wrote about what's going on with the Chinese.
Since 2020, 3D printing has emerged as a strategic technology in China.
Since then, the field has been flooded with patents that often draw on open source.
The patents are heavily subsidized by the Chinese state. The financial advantage is enormous. In some cases, Prusa has researched that the individual parts cost more to purchase than the printer itself.
Now, as a consumer, you might say, "I don't care. The main thing is that I have a great printer."
But most people will agree that there are also disadvantages for consumers.
Except for H2D, which costs significantly more than a CoreOne, many CoreXY printers also do not print without VFA. And Bambulab has done nothing to improve it.
Yes, it's true that Prusa printers tend to be rather rudimentary for customers at the beginning.
On the other hand, the printers are supported and improved for a very long time.
If I find that unacceptable, I have to wait and buy the second generation.
With Prusa, at least you have the option of switching to the new hardware.
Bambulab has also made numerous hardware changes, but as an early customer, you're out of luck.
The new Elegoo Carbon is already available in three hardware revisions at launch.
Good luck with the China lottery.
Sure, some things could be improved at Prusa. But at their core, they won't change.
Prusa is also very different from its competitors in terms of design.
If you expect fancy technical overkill from Prusa, you're simply in the wrong place.
Personally, apart from everything else, an H2D would be too much complicated technology for me.
But that's something everyone sees differently.
Prusa is already a niche product.
Sales in 2025: 100 million compared to Bambulab with 1,100 million.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
BBL are truly a disgusting company...everything from their anti-consumer practices, gaslighting users, their creepy af CEO, I even read recently they're trying to get a patent on horizontal slicing...I mean WTF.
I have strong reservations about Bambu Lab, their "walled garden" and hosted ecosystem myself: Had a P1S on order in January and cancelled when they announced the new, restricted firmware. But that claim in boldface seems too absurd and requires evidence. Can you provide a source or link please?
(I mean, really, there is a novelty requirement for patents. The patent offices and examiners are not as terrible as some open-source aficionados like to paint them. And Bambu are not naive and know what they can expect to get protection for. I can only imagine that the "patent on horizontal slicing" is a gross over-simplification, and that they are trying to claim some specific implementation or trick connected to slicing.)
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
You can see a few of their patent applications here https://www.mdpi.com/2411-5134/8/6/141#B69-inventions-08-00141
I don't see one on horizontal slicing, but there is one for variable height slicing, which is currently open source. Which is a bit of a dick move, in my opinion.
BBL are truly a disgusting company...everything from their anti-consumer practices, gaslighting users, their creepy af CEO, I even read recently they're trying to get a patent on horizontal slicing...I mean WTF.
I have strong reservations about Bambu Lab, their "walled garden" and hosted ecosystem myself: Had a P1S on order in January and cancelled when they announced the new, restricted firmware. But that claim in boldface seems too absurd and requires evidence. Can you provide a source or link please?
(I mean, really, there is a novelty requirement for patents. The patent offices and examiners are not as terrible as some open-source aficionados like to paint them. And Bambu are not naive and know what they can expect to get protection for. I can only imagine that the "patent on horizontal slicing" is a gross over-simplification, and that they are trying to claim some specific implementation or trick connected to slicing.)
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
I understand the bigger picture concerns - but from an individual level i've been stung by Prusa after being an early adopter on the Core One and am currently without a printer entirely as they couldn't fix the problems I was running into (and they still haven't)
It's hard to want to invest back into that.
So I have an assembled Core One sized refund in my pocket (and I finally got the UK import VAT refund after months of having to go through that process) - Prusa have not made the Core One look appealing after half a year of reporting the problem. I see no modern alternative other than H2D.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
BBL are truly a disgusting company...everything from their anti-consumer practices, gaslighting users, their creepy af CEO, I even read recently they're trying to get a patent on horizontal slicing...I mean WTF.
I have strong reservations about Bambu Lab, their "walled garden" and hosted ecosystem myself: Had a P1S on order in January and cancelled when they announced the new, restricted firmware. But that claim in boldface seems too absurd and requires evidence. Can you provide a source or link please?
(I mean, really, there is a novelty requirement for patents. The patent offices and examiners are not as terrible as some open-source aficionados like to paint them. And Bambu are not naive and know what they can expect to get protection for. I can only imagine that the "patent on horizontal slicing" is a gross over-simplification, and that they are trying to claim some specific implementation or trick connected to slicing.)
I'm only going on something Josef posted on Reddit. Reading it back I might have misinterpreted it...I guess the takeaway is regardless of who Josef is referring to, someone is trying to patent the principle of slicing by horizontal layers:
https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/comments/1m0ciwg/comment/n3c2jib/?context=3
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
[..] there is one for variable height slicing, which is currently open source. Which is a bit of a dick move, in my opinion.
I don't see a contradiction and a "dick move" there. Of course that's assuming that Bambu Lab have actually invented this (or purchased the right to the invention from a third party), and that a patent application was filed before the publication as open source.
If the open source license grants non-revocable use rights (be it for non-commercial use only or for commercial use as well), a granted patent would not stand in the way of those rights. A granted patent may actually protect the open-source status, since it will make it less attractive to third parties to try and patent derivative inventions.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
I'm finding some great improvements with slightly modifying the front idlers to have a piece of silicone in front of the square nut to absorb vibrations. I still have some slight VFA but they are now much smaller than before.
I strongly suspect the problem pulleys have a very slightly larger or smaller diameter causing the shoulder of the belt to pinch during engagement and disengagement.
@shushuda Or anyone else who has a good pulley. If you have a micrometer could you check the diameters of those pulleys that are problematic compared to the good ones.
I think the best solution may actually be to use polymer pulleys overmolded onto metal allowing a bit of give to each tooth engagement. Maybe someone could print a flexible resin outer to put in a smaller pulley.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
I'm finding some great improvements with slightly modifying the front idlers to have a piece of silicone in front of the square nut to absorb vibrations. I still have some slight VFA but they are now much smaller than before.
Interesting! Can you go into a bit more detail on your solution? What silicone shape/part have you used, how is it placed exactly? Maybe include a photo or drawing?
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
I'm finding some great improvements with slightly modifying the front idlers to have a piece of silicone in front of the square nut to absorb vibrations. I still have some slight VFA but they are now much smaller than before.
I strongly suspect the problem pulleys have a very slightly larger or smaller diameter causing the shoulder of the belt to pinch during engagement and disengagement.
@shushuda Or anyone else who has a good pulley. If you have a micrometer could you check the diameters of those pulleys that are problematic compared to the good ones.I think the best solution may actually be to use polymer pulleys overmolded onto metal allowing a bit of give to each tooth engagement. Maybe someone could print a flexible resin outer to put in a smaller pulley.
That sounds promising. Presumably you've enlarged the nut slot in the tensioner pulley part to make room for the silicone insert, and to make sure that the nut isn't still coupled to the part through being a tight fit. Presumably, if the objective is to introduce a tiny amount of compliance somewhere in the belt path, a similar effect could be achieved with a silicone washer underneath the head of the tension screw (maybe with a steel washer either side of it to ensure it still turns easily)?
A smooth tensioner idler, printed in two halves (a flange plus half the barrel) in TPU might be something that could be printed fairly easily by anyone. Varying perimeter counts and infill percentage could allow for tuning.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
I just did the quickest dirtiest thing and put a small negative modifier on the idler to fit a bit of silicone I cut. The second image is the same piece at the same belt tension without and with the idler change.
