RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
If you are going to paint the print they will be completely obscured.
Not true, unless you also sand the parts and apply a layer of filler.
If you are printing a fraction oversized intending to sand the part to an accurate fit they will disappear.
In practice, if you are printing functional parts you will never notice them..
I agree with these assessments.
If you print dark coloured matt filament you will have trouble seeing them
Not true. I have printed some enclosures with Galaxy black PLA, printing it fast and matte, and I notice the VFAs quite clearly.
If you are too lazy to post process your prints, are obsessed with cosmetics and place every glossy-filament print under a shallow glancing light source with no diffused fill light then you will weep unconsolably.
Why do you see the need for this kind of spin-doctoring? Let's keep it real. If you want to print parts that are meant to be looked at, using glossy filaments, you will be disappointed with the results.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
If you are too lazy to post process your prints
Lazy 😂
I design and sell functional parts that I expect a certain aesthetic standard from a printer at this price point. I have zero intention of sanding and painting every part and it's nothing to do with laziness.
Maybe Prusa should have included a pack of sandpaper in the kit if that's whats expected at the end of every print 😂😂😂
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
Maybe Prusa should have included a pack of sandpaper in the kit if that's whats expected at the end of every print 😂😂😂
Now there's another promising consumable business!
"Only use original PrusaGrit™ paper for optimum results."
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
Total 3D printing and Prusa noob here.
For real: How bad is the VFA issue and does it concern EVERY Core One? Do you think it might get fixed or is fixable by soft- or hardware?
Are there any alternatives in print quality and quality of the printer with much less VFA?
I ordered mine (Batch 13) with the accelerometer and was hoping that Prusa might adress this „problem“ in the time of waiting for my shipping.
If you're really noob in 3D printing that should not be a big issue, as you won't have comparison points, and it's less visible than bad layer stacking IMO.
It seems that Prusa is (or will be) working on it, and there is always ways to reduce the visibility (with mat or fiber filled filament for example, or fuzzy skin).
Honestly, resonance noises bother me a lot more than those vertical artifact (as I know you can hide them if you really want), but as Yuregn said, it's really people dependent.
If you try, for a first printer to have the absolute perfect printer that prints injected like plastic part, you will never be satisfied. VFA are present on ALL core xy printers (even with bedslingers with input shaping), just more or less depending on... many things (conception, hardware, software).
For a first printer I would firstly choose a reliable easy to use 3D printer, and Prusa's are a really good choice.
Here are my 2 cents.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
Total 3D printing and Prusa noob here.
For real: How bad is the VFA issue and does it concern EVERY Core One? Do you think it might get fixed or is fixable by soft- or hardware?
Are there any alternatives in print quality and quality of the printer with much less VFA?
I ordered mine (Batch 13) with the accelerometer and was hoping that Prusa might adress this „problem“ in the time of waiting for my shipping.
If you're really noob in 3D printing that should not be a big issue, as you won't have comparison points, and it's less visible than bad layer stacking IMO.
It seems that Prusa is (or will be) working on it, and there is always ways to reduce the visibility (with mat or fiber filled filament for example, or fuzzy skin).
Honestly, resonance noises bother me a lot more than those vertical artifact (as I know you can hide them if you really want), but as Yuregn said, it's really people dependent.If you try, for a first printer to have the absolute perfect printer that prints injected like plastic part, you will never be satisfied. VFA are present on ALL core xy printers (even with bedslingers with input shaping), just more or less depending on... many things (conception, hardware, software).
For a first printer I would firstly choose a reliable easy to use 3D printer, and Prusa's are a really good choice.
Here are my 2 cents.
Those resonances are very interesting, my printer is very quite, a much needed improvement from my mk3S which could be heard in the office above the workshop, the C1 is almost impossible to hear. I wonder if its due to parts fitment and tolerances that makes different parts and panels triggered into resonance on some printers. Its not exactly an industrial spec machine after all, theres plenty of room for variation as its built now, just like many other consumer printers.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
In general I'm happy with the Core One, but the VFA issue is pretty important that they nail down and fix.
As far as noise and resonance goes I really have nothing to complain about...in fact it's much quieter than I was expecting.
RE:
In general I'm happy with the Core One, but the VFA issue is pretty important that they nail down and fix.
As far as noise and resonance goes I really have nothing to complain about...in fact it's much quieter than I was expecting.
The camera is crap, although that's a separate product...but I haven't given up hope on Prusa fixing the issues in firmware.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
Total 3D printing and Prusa noob here.
For real: How bad is the VFA issue and does it concern EVERY Core One? Do you think it might get fixed or is fixable by soft- or hardware?
Are there any alternatives in print quality and quality of the printer with much less VFA?
I ordered mine (Batch 13) with the accelerometer and was hoping that Prusa might adress this „problem“ in the time of waiting for my shipping.
How bad? It depends on your demands. VFAs are visible only when three conditions are matched - straight (vertical) walls, shiny filament and specific printing speeds for perimeters. I think most of the users will never know that VFAs exists if they didn't visit forum or Reddit.
Are they fixable? Some printers shows more pronounced VFAs. They should be able to mitigate them. But seems like all core XY printers with belts has some VFAs. QiDi Plus 4 uses belts with 1.5mm instead of common 2mm pitch. So it has finer VFAs. But I believe there is no printer which does not have them.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
Those resonances are very interesting, my printer is very quite, a much needed improvement from my mk3S which could be heard in the office above the workshop, the C1 is almost impossible to hear. I wonder if its due to parts fitment and tolerances that makes different parts and panels triggered into resonance on some printers. Its not exactly an industrial spec machine after all, theres plenty of room for variation as its built now, just like many other consumer printers.
It may be because bearings and rods that dont have the exact same dimensions between printers and may cause play on some of the printers (and so vibrate more. On my MK3/4 I managed to get rid of those resonance noises by changing the bearings to Misumi ones).
But that's not the subject haha, there is a topic dedicated (that I brought up back yesterday). 🙂
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
I ran the phase stepping wizard by putting 'M1977' into a plain text gcode file and 'printing' that file. The wizard completed with the message "Calibration failed to find corrections to motor current". I wonder whether that means the algorithm wasn't able to compute an answer at all, or simply wasn't able to improve on the current performance. My printer is delightfully smooth and quiet, so I wasn't expecting any improvement in motor noise - I was just hoping to add another data point regarding VFAs.
RE:
I have just updated FW to 6.3.3. Changed nozzle to standard instead of HF and placed the printer on a sturdy shelf. It prints amazing!
Gues the new FW just improved something.
Printed model: https://www.printables.com/model/1237212-core-one-nozzle-replacement-tool
PETG Generic, 0,15mm structural, 0,4 Obxidian nozzle.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
I ran the phase stepping wizard by putting 'M1977' into a plain text gcode file and 'printing' that file. The wizard completed with the message "Calibration failed to find corrections to motor current". I wonder whether that means the algorithm wasn't able to compute an answer at all, or simply wasn't able to improve on the current performance. My printer is delightfully smooth and quiet, so I wasn't expecting any improvement in motor noise - I was just hoping to add another data point regarding VFAs.
Yeah I got the same message when I tried to do Phase Stepping Calibration.
Whilst I had the accelerometer plugged in I thought I'd do the Input Shaping Calibration again...it spat out completely different numbers this time 😁
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
It's interesting that Josef wrote that they don't suffer from VFA's on their own machines and says it may be related to the build process or shipping, but you can clearly see some VFA's on their latest Youtube Shorts of a part that was printed on a Core One:
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
Is it just me or does it look like it didn't change anything? The lower part looks as bad as on mine
I have just updated FW to 6.3.3. Changed nozzle to standard instead of HF and placed the printer on a sturdy shelf. It prints amazing!
Gues the new FW just improved something.
Printed model: https://www.printables.com/model/1237212-core-one-nozzle-replacement-tool
PETG Generic, 0,15mm structural, 0,4 Obxidian nozzle.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
It may look worse on camera, but it's great to the eye. I don't see any 2mm vfa there.
RE:
It may look worse on camera, but it's great to the eye. I don't see any 2mm vfa there.
The layer structure looks very smooth -- although the focus is not quite right, seems that the camera focused on the table surface. But I do see VFAs, most clearly in the second picture.
And it looks like there is some ringing, most visible on the letters. Do you have an accelerometer to calibrate the input shaper?
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
Its hard to capture it right. With regular nozzle its step up with print quality.
Yes I am going to buy one and try to calibrate input shaper.
I find out that for print quality is steardy rack under the printer the must.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
It's interesting that Josef wrote that they don't suffer from VFA's on their own machines and says it may be related to the build process or shipping, but you can clearly see some VFA's on their latest Youtube Shorts of a part that was printed on a Core One:
He said, in reaction to video with extreme VFAs, this:
We are doing a lot of blind print tests internally comparing to other machines on the market, so I am very confident in the print quality. Primarily the models which we se people print a lot on Printables, not synthetic models. Then we use CT scanning for evaluation of dimensional accuracy (still haven’t been matched by any desktop machine) and now implementing Gelsight for repeatable measurements of the surface quality … Anyhow we do not see the same level of VFA internally. We are fetching some machines back to investigate. My guess is that it can be worsened by multiple little things during transport, kit assembly etc, so the outcome will be a mix of a checklist, improved build instructions for kit builders and FW optimization.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
The part isn’t in focus in any of the pictures, and the part doesn’t really have any large flat surfaces so it doesn’t really help much.
RE:
Phase stepping worked for me. The printer has become a little quieter. But it was already quiet before and had no resonances.
I didn't notice any major change in the surface quality.
But I also think it's good.
When not printing without straight surfaces, it's even really good. The consistency of the layers is flawless. No artifacts at all.
With straight surfaces, the usual belt ripple, which is heavily dependent on speed.
After phase stepping, I printed a cube with an edge length of 60mm with one wall in silk pla. Printed from 30mm to 210mm at 20mm intervals for a rough overview.
Up to 50mm no VFA. Around 170mm also little but slightly visible.
At some speeds strong VFA.
With a normal red jayo pla it looks really good.
Only slightly visible at some speeds.
I don't think the Core One is significantly different from other Core XYs.
I was expecting a Corexy to cause more problems than a bed slinger.
Even at Bambulab, never again bed slinger, these should print more beautifully than the Core XY.
