X and Y movements generate horrible resonance and vibrations
I have been working with my 5 Tool XL for a week now and had mixed results. While many of the challenges I have been working through the one that will probably lead to me returning the printer for a refund is the movement resonance noises. I have had several printers before the XL and am accustomed to their tendency to make noises but this is clearly unreasonable. This has been described by others as a 'buzz' or 'rattle' but this is clearly a symptom of resonance in some of the moving parts. In trying to get the heart of the issue I have dampened or removed most of the suspect parts and concluded that many other suggestions are missing the root cause. This can be tested by using the control board to move the unloaded X carriage in either the X or Y direction as many steps as you can quickly dial in. For me, the Y direction, near zero is the most noisy but I can get noise from many locations for both directions.
A couple of notes about the noise:
- The noise happens mostly during print movements (as opposed to travel movements)
- Faster travel movements only seem to have the noise briefly
- The noise happens for any tool head
- Attempting to hold the tool head, various panels, belts, and the X carriage does not eliminate the noise
- The panels and tool heads only seem to be amplifiers or 'speakers' for the noise, not the driver or source
- I can generate the noise briefly through X/Y movements at the control board. I think it is mostly limited by the movement speed and duration.
- During prints the resonance appears to range between 205 and 222 Hz
- During unloaded X/Y movements the resonance appears to be around 250Hz
The image below is a screen grab from an audio spectrum analyzer (yes, its a mobile app but these are good enough to be within a few Hz and we are only looking at relative volumes, not calibrated values.) The green arrows point to the 250Hz resonance of an unloaded Y movement. As you can see, it far outstrips the general printer noise. This is extremely unreasonable for a product of this price.
Things I have done to try and eliminate the noise with limited or no success
- Adjust belt tension
- Remove panels
- Dampen panels
- Dampen or lights
- Dampen tool heads
- Dampen spools
- Vary print speeds
The noise cannot be controlled as I understand the problem. The carts are supposed to be self contained and zero maintenance according to other questions to Prusa support so there is no lubrication or greasing that can/should be done. (As an aside, one of the comments said that the carts shouldn't need maintenance for 2 years and replacement is not an easy task due to the complexity of the motor, rail, and belt construction. WHO isn't happy to hear they will need to service such a critical part within 2 years?) So I am left asking Prusa and the community: What can be done about this? Am I left with just returning the system and looking for a better tool changer*?
[* No, I'm not looking at current Bamboo systems as I 1) don't want to send half of my print material into the trash and 2) who wants to add hours or DAYS to large/complex multi material prints?]
RE: X and Y movements generate horrible resonance and vibrations
I got my XL for 1 day, 21th of December it came in and 24 hours later did my first print. What a vibrations noice, very irritating. My MK4 with enclosure is silence. Its standing on Squash balls to remove the vibration. I hope this will be solved over time, but rather sooner then later. I wont let this machine run overnight, it will definitely disturb the night, until this is solved. Prusa we need assistance on this topic.
RE: X and Y movements generate horrible resonance and vibrations
Hi Bob,
This is a Peer to Peer forum, If you haven't already done so, I would suggest contacting prusa chat, and Linking to this post to ensure they see it!.
Regards Joan
I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK
RE: X and Y movements generate horrible resonance and vibrations
See this. These steps lowered XL noisy substantially. The dbs are between 42 and 46 from 5 feet away. The only remaining issue is printing circular objects or 45 deg objects where the stepper motors are fully engaged. For those models I reduce the perimeter speeds. Also, using Input Shaper at 200% speed increase changes circular noise from waves of grinding to a more steady 'drone'.
RE: X and Y movements generate horrible resonance and vibrations
Sorry for the delay in response.
So this is a series of band-aids, not a fix. The source of the problem is related to the X/Y movement which is only amplified by all of the things that are noted in that post. Those fixes (the rubber band around the tool is a particularly effective one for me for most noise) do not address the source. This is evident when the X/Y moves without a tool and the noise persists. I will be building or buying an enclosure when I see one that checks all of my boxes so that will help but I hope someone finds a way to quiet the system down inherently.
RE: X and Y movements generate horrible resonance and vibrations
I am fortunate to have my printer running in a basement, several rooms away from me so I can still run it just about any time. But even with layers of house and several door between me and the printer I can still hear the larger resonances. While the print quality has been amazing for me the noise level is disappointing.
RE: X and Y movements generate horrible resonance and vibrations
I had a howling noise part way down on the Z axis for a few inches of travel. Support mentioned I could loosen the trapezoidal nuts but I went a different way. Lube on the Z rails improved it. Not sure if that helps you at all on XY, good luck. BTW I am working on an enclosure build I bought and expect that to kill the noise quite a bit for me.
CJ
RE: X and Y movements generate horrible resonance and vibrations
Is there away to check the stepper motor program driver for ramp up run slow down and see the actual voltage amp draw in real time. I do not have my preassembled unit yet but have had to profile steppers at work to get rid of resonance vibrations.
RE: X and Y movements generate horrible resonance and vibrations
whenever i tried to increase the speed on the input shaper sliced parts, after a couple of layers one of the belts slipped and it crashed horribly... 🙁
RE: X and Y movements generate horrible resonance and vibrations
Reply to my own Post, I have taken the suggestion of Derfesnoj and covering the side panels left and right with Kilmat.
Resonance is at a level of the MK4 without enclosure and squash ball dampers. No irritation vibration anymore.
RE:
How thick are those kilmats?
I think they are available in different thicknesses
How much space do you have behind the carriages on the linear rails?
RE: X and Y movements generate horrible resonance and vibrations
The space on my machine meassured with calibers behing the carriage is 2.4, 2.5 is Just to much, wont fit. These plates are 2.5mm and 2mm when proper pressed on with roller. So clearence is small, you calso chim it with a ring to get more room. After placed its far better on the resonace, but not all the way, after printing the remainings petg part for the enclosure the diagnole placed components on the bed are realy well. But the top cover a 360*350 reckangled plated is stil with some layers a pain. The motors prusa still needs to tweak to get them from a resonace frequancy.
RE: X and Y movements generate horrible resonance and vibrations - UPDATE: Alpha 6.0 Firmware Phase Stepping is a MASSIVE improvement
I normally fear and avoid alpha and pre-release firmware but wanted to give this a try as I don't have any major projects on the near horizon. All I can say is WOW. The Alpha 6.0 firmware update ( https://github.com/prusa3d/Prusa-Firmware-Buddy/tree/v6.0.0-alpha) has almost eliminated the annoying travel noises problem for me. Sure the rapid movements still have that higher pitched zipper noise but general movements and travel motions are almost silent. I tried to capture a video for effect and my phone's mic was so amped up to pick up the sounds that my gripping of the phone and motions ruin the audio.
What I did:
- Updated to the Alpha 6.0 firmware
- Ran the Phase Stepping Calibration
- Ran a previous print that was known to exhibited the noise
What I didn't do:
- Add ANY sound dampening materials
- Modify the print heads
- Lube, grease or treat the rails
- Apply and fixes like
Seriously, the firmware and calibration have dramatically changed my machine for the better.
Now for the bad news:
- Apparently enabling Phase Stepping is done at the trade off of Crash Detection. While I have not needed Crash Detection to date, I dislike the loss of one feature for another. They say devs are testing to see if they can both be enabled later.
- The speed 'seems' slower. I'm running a 2.5h print now to test but without the noise the printer feels slower, like its not moving as fast. I really hope that this is a trick of the mind and they have not also cut the speeds a little in the Phase Stepping solution. I'll report back later with results.
RE: X and Y movements generate horrible resonance and vibrations
Please check out the Alpha 6.0 firmware ( https://github.com/prusa3d/Prusa-Firmware-Buddy/tree/v6.0.0-alpha). This has pretty much resolved my complaint. Time will tell if it is a complete solution but it has completely changed my machine for the better.
RE: X and Y movements generate horrible resonance and vibrations
Please check out the Alpha 6.0 firmware ( https://github.com/prusa3d/Prusa-Firmware-Buddy/tree/v6.0.0-alpha). This has pretty much resolved my complaint. Time will tell if it is a complete solution but it has completely changed my machine for the better.
RE: X and Y movements generate horrible resonance and vibrations
I have experienced good results with v6.0.0 alpha so far. I'm not noticing a speed difference and the same model seems to be printing at roughly the same speed before/after. Resonance is substantially less. There is still some noise when the nextruder repositions, but not objectionable.
RE: X and Y movements generate horrible resonance and vibrations
My test print seems to be clocking about the same time as before so it doesn't look like the XL has had to give up any speed. There are some remnant long motion noises but it is so much better now. The high speed travel motions are now the loudest noises on the printer. I really think Phase Stepping has solved this problem for me. I look forward to continued improvements from Prusa.
RE: X and Y movements generate horrible resonance and vibrations
Mine is very loud in fat y axis motions. Lots of tool head crashes too.