New Steel Sheet for Nylon - poor results
I ordered the new PA Steel Sheet to print nylon when I ordered the new Enclosure. Was looking forward to trying to print PACF with the new parts and the ObXidian nozzle. Prusa almost never has their PACF in stock, so I typically use another brand of PACF, and I gave it a try.
Brand new, fresh plate used 255 nozzle/100 bed as temps per the mfgr's recommendation. I dried the roll for 10 hours prior to print, and I print from a filament dryer so there are no moisture problems.
The good news is that the print turned out very well. The bad news is that the bottom layer with supports were almost impossible to remove from the sheet. I printed two small parts, and it took me 90 minutes painstakingly scraping with a razor blade and a plastic razor blade to get the support layer off of the sheet. I succeeded with one very small scratch to the sheet, but there was no way the bottom layer was going to release any other way. I tried putting it in a freezer, practically tore out my fingernails - everything.
I ran a second job again with small parts but this time no supports. I also used glue stick. I let the sheet cool after the job was over, and the parts still strongly adhered to the plate. I put a drop of water on the plate and gave it a minute, then used a plastic razor and the parts popped off.
If I was printing larger parts without thin supports, this sheet would probably be amazing. My parts, however, are small enough that when I flex the sheet, nothing separates.
I checked the website for reviews to see if anyone else was having a similar problem, and there were no reviews. I also noticed that the sheet was out of stock and I think it has been for a while. I couldn't post a review, so it makes me wonder what kind of feedback Prusa is getting from the field about this plate.
I also wonder whether it would work better with Prusa's PACF. Maybe someday I'll be around to catch the in-stock notification within 5 minutes of arrival so I'm in time to place an order before they sell out again.
RE: New Steel Sheet for Nylon - poor results
Hello!
It sounds like you’ve had quite an experience with the new PA Steel Sheet and PACF filament! While your print turned out well, the bottom layer with supports was difficult to remove. Using a glue stick and letting the sheet cool completely were good steps. You might also try applying a thin layer of PVA glue or using a different adhesive sheet. Reheating the bed slightly can sometimes help loosen parts. Since freezing didn’t work, consider using a spatula or a flexible print removal tool. It might work better with Prusa’s PACF, but experimenting with different brands and settings might be necessary.
RE: New Steel Sheet for Nylon - poor results
Think twice before using glue on this plate. Prusa warns clearly against it. No IPA, acetone or any kind of adhesive. Just plain water. I've no idea if they're being too cautious or if they’re right and the plate will be damaged with the continuous use of glue, but I prefer to stay on the safe side. This isn't a cheap plate (specially the XL version). Printing regularly Prusament PA-CF11 with my MK3S and the PA sheet. I never had any problem removing the parts, even small ones. My settings for bed temperature are 90C for the first layer and 100C for the others; nozzle 275C all layers. Plate cleaned with warm water and a few drops of dish soap. Of course, a different brand of nylon CF might require other bed and nozzle temperatures.
RE: New Steel Sheet for Nylon - poor results
This is how I understand it (not sure, so might by wrong):
Prusa says glue stick no longer needed or recommended, but it's more to the point that this sheet has better adhesion, so it's not needed.
But if it sticks too much, glue stick can be kind of a "release agent" by lowering the part adhesion to the sheet.
IPA, acetone or other solvents can damage the sheet suface material.
RE: New Steel Sheet for Nylon - poor results
I tried using a couple kinds of scrapers that would be unlikely to scratch the surface of the sheet, but none of them were able to get underneath the thin layer of the brim that PrusaSlicer creates when using organic supports. That's why I had to resort to razor blades. I used a metal razor blade to get underneath the support, and then a plastic one to lift/pry off the support. It was very time consuming.
The glue stick worked much better as a release agent, especially after I added a little water after the print.
These problems occur when you have a very thin first layer. If you don't have a very thin first layer, then the adhesive property of the sheet is great. My warning is for people who have designs that include aspects where too much adhesion will either damage the part or be very difficult to remove from the plate.
RE: New Steel Sheet for Nylon - poor results
This is what I think, too, but it would be helpful if Prusa could confirm this. I use the Kores glue stick which says it is water soluble, so I don't think it poses a risk of damage to the sheet.
I also want to acknowledge that if you're going to use glue stick, then you might want to use the normal satin plate. The point in this thread is if you are creating a model with organic supports and a thin brim, or if you have delicate parts to your model that are very thin near or around the first layer, then this sheet may be too adhesive for those kinds of models. It is sort of a back-handed compliment to this sheet - the adhesive qualities are too good for some uses.
This is how I understand it (not sure, so might by wrong):
Prusa says glue stick no longer needed or recommended, but it's more to the point that this sheet has better adhesion, so it's not needed.
But if it sticks too much, glue stick can be kind of a "release agent" by lowering the part adhesion to the sheet.
IPA, acetone or other solvents can damage the sheet suface material.
RE: New Steel Sheet for Nylon - poor results
By the way, using razor blades is truly a last resort. When using a metal razor blade, the risk of slipping and cutting yourself is huge. That's why I switched to the plastic ones when I could - you could still hurt yourself, but not like with the metal razor blades.
There's also the risk of damaging your sheet when using metal razor blades. VERY easy to scratch or gouge your sheet with a sharp razor blade.
If you're going to try this, then I strongly recommend using a holder like one you can find on Amazon pictured below
I tried using a couple kinds of scrapers that would be unlikely to scratch the surface of the sheet, but none of them were able to get underneath the thin layer of the brim that PrusaSlicer creates when using organic supports. That's why I had to resort to razor blades. I used a metal razor blade to get underneath the support, and then a plastic one to lift/pry off the support. It was very time consuming.
RE: New Steel Sheet for Nylon - poor results
Agreed. Stopping a print that just started seems to be a no-go.
RE: New Steel Sheet for Nylon - poor results
I hadn't thought of that scenario, but yeah, if you only put one or two layers down and stop a print, the cleanup could be really bad.
Again, I haven't had the good fortune to try Prusa's PACF yet. Maybe the experience is different with their material.
Agreed. Stopping a print that just started seems to be a no-go.
RE: New Steel Sheet for Nylon - poor results
If you're really willing to try it, be ready for a long wait. My advice is to watch every single day the status and when you see that it's in stock, get it at once, don't waste a second. Subscribing to e-mail notifications is not a sure bet. By the time Prusa sends you the e-mail telling that the filament is in stock, possibly it will be too late and the stock is already gone. That happened to me in the past with other Prusa filaments.
RE: New Steel Sheet for Nylon - poor results
Follow-up to my rant -
Not too surprisingly, the more you use the sheet, the less of a problem it is to get the single layers off. My initial experience was with a brand new sheet. As I do multiple prints over the same part of the sheet, adhesion has reduced somewhat.
I still like this sheet for big parts, but be advised that thin layers can pose issues.
RE: New Steel Sheet for Nylon - poor results
How does it compare to the normal sheets?
RE: New Steel Sheet for Nylon - poor results
The new sheet is much more adhesive than the standard satin sheet
How does it compare to the normal sheets?
RE: New Steel Sheet for Nylon - poor results
So to wrap up this thread, I finally got the Prusament PA11 CF. It works great with this sheet. No glue, no nothing. So my comments above should be limited to NylonX.
RE: New Steel Sheet for Nylon - poor results
You're not kidding. And Prusa also stopped offering 10% off for the CF variations of PA and PC for Prusa owners. I just got several rolls of the PACF, and I'm still waiting for the PC CF to come in. The website was not working today, either. I couldn't even place a notification request. Prusa support said that was a website error.
If you're really willing to try it, be ready for a long wait. My advice is to watch every single day the status and when you see that it's in stock, get it at once, don't waste a second. Subscribing to e-mail notifications is not a sure bet. By the time Prusa sends you the e-mail telling that the filament is in stock, possibly it will be too late and the stock is already gone. That happened to me in the past with other Prusa filaments.