RE: Bard says the Bambu X1c swaps filaments faster than Prusa XL
I'll never fully understand folk's compulsion to recruit as many people as possible to validate a decision they've made, especially one as ultimately unimportant as which 3d printer they have decided (not) to buy. I do feel for David and his very frustrating and costly experience, as there seems to be some kind of psychological road block standing in the way of him letting go and quietly moving on with a different product. The jest above about the bounty checks gave me a chuckle, but it does seem that of those who feel they have been let down by Prusa in the last couple years, many have turned so aggressively against the company that it seems they would celebrate it's failure. This seems silly to me as I believe most people (not just on this forum) would have to agree that the industry would be quite negatively impacted if Prusa were absent from it. Something is clearly causing people to take hard sides on the matter, though. Even users who are getting great results out of the XL, lauding it as a printer that is providing them a level of quality, material efficiency, and utility beyond anything else currently available, won't let an opportunity pass without remarking about the "clueless people being led by a clueless leader" on this forum. As a fairly new 3d printing hobbyist, I'm really thankful to the many forum users here who are willing to offer level headed, untainted help to each other here, despite vastly differing experience levels and investments in the hobby. Also to the 'few' youtube folks who are comfortable acknowledging the challenges while collaborating toward solutions rather than stopping at every chance to take a petty dig at one side or the other. Robert Cowan comes to mind as a great example someone willing to simply educate without pettiness.
Whether or not my own printer continues to meet my needs long into the future, I expect Prusa will be fine. I suspect many of the CQ and CS issues that folks are having is a direct reflection of the demand for Prusa products and their struggle to meet that demand. If demand drops off because some of those on the fence decide to go elsewhere, I believe they'll still be turning a profit and will retain their customers who appreciate the attempt to adhere to a more open core philosophy.
I genuinely hope David can find whatever peace he's looking for on this matter.
-J
RE: Bard says the Bambu X1c swaps filaments faster than Prusa XL
Well stated. People have different needs and different tastes / uses. As well ups and downs with experiences. Hopefully everyone finds what they are looking for and get what they need in the end. Share the knowledge and keep printing!
RE: Bard says the Bambu X1c swaps filaments faster than Prusa XL
Prusa XL,, 5 tool head is way faster when it comes multicolor printing vs a Bambu printer. That data is based on slicer information.
RE: Bard says the Bambu X1c swaps filaments faster than Prusa XL
I have both an X1C and an XL 5 head and Bards claims are ridiculous. The XL swaps in a couple seconds, not to mention how much filament the X1C wastes.
Now there is a use case for the X1C to be sure. It's a fantastic printer. But you simply cannot compare the two.
Bard claims that the Bambu X1c swaps filaments faster than Prusa XL. Is this true? Here is the statement Bard made:
The Bambu Lab X1C AMS and Prusa XL are both excellent 3D printers with their own strengths and weaknesses. When it comes to filament swapping, the Bambu Lab X1C AMS has a clear advantage. It can swap filaments in around 30 seconds, while the Prusa XL's tool changer takes around 45 seconds. This is because the X1C AMS uses a filament buffer system that keeps a constant supply of filament ready for the printer, while the Prusa XL's tool changer has to physically move each toolhead in and out of position.
Here is a table that summarizes the filament swapping times for the two printers:
As you can see, the Bambu Lab X1C AMS is significantly faster at swapping filaments than the Prusa XL. This can be a major advantage for prints that require multiple filament colors or materials.
In addition to being faster, the Bambu Lab X1C AMS is also more versatile than the Prusa XL's tool changer. It can handle up to 16 different filaments, while the Prusa XL's tool changer can only handle up to five. This means that the X1C AMS can be used to print a wider variety of objects.
Overall, the Bambu Lab X1C AMS is the clear winner when it comes to filament swapping. It is faster, more versatile,and can handle more filaments than the Prusa XL's tool changer. If you are looking for a printer that can handle a wide variety of prints, then the Bambu Lab X1C AMS is a great option.
RE:
The quality of AI content scales with the popularity of the topic and how much material is out there on the topic asked. The more obscure it gets the worse the quality and accuracy. The Prusa XL is a pretty obscure topic in the larger picture.
I wonder why someone would not simply verify that Bard fairy tale by loading a multicolour print file into compatible slicers and slice with standard profiles for each, the XL and the Bambulab X1c. At least Prusaslicer is pretty accurate as far as printing times go.
There are also youtube videos out there showing you tool changes life in action. Take the time yourself if you like. 45sec is absolutely ridiculous. I could imagine that data about MMU and XL were mixed and mashed up in that AI response, or the time stated was simply halucinated straight away.
Mk3s MMU2s, Voron 0.1, Voron 2.4
RE: Bard says the Bambu X1c swaps filaments faster than Prusa XL
As a rule of thumb, if you struggle finding much information on Google and/or reddit on the matter, chances are that AI will respond with random nonsense as well. Nicely written and credible looking random nonsense that is, but nonsense nonetheless.
Mk3s MMU2s, Voron 0.1, Voron 2.4
RE: Bard says the Bambu X1c swaps filaments faster than Prusa XL
"I wasn’t asking for zealous enthusiasm from the Prusa fan club. I was looking for factual information to base a decision on. Also, I was not looking for estimates, I was hoping somebody would know the actual time for an XL tool change from start to finish."
Typically 3-5 seconds to change tools, as part of a normal print. If you want to change tools manually, specifying the parking of an already selected tool and then selection and mounting of another tool, plus the time to heat up from idle to extrusion temperature, then 30-45 seconds might be realistic. But that's not what happens in real life - in real life the next tool is already preheated to temperature, is collected, and is available to print immediately.
"Of course there are intrinsic benefits and drawbacks of tool hangers. Those are beyond the scope of my question. Tool changers are not all a panacea, especially when printing PLA because of the cracking PLA problem inherent in any tool changer implementation (where PLA becomes brittle and breaks after a surprisingly short time.)"
All my filament is carefully pre-dried on receipt; kept in sealed storage with humidity monitoring and silica gel; and then printed from dry box (the AMS on my X1-C; and a 6-reel dry box for my Prusa XL 5T). No - never any problem with this "cracking" that you describe. Experience from my early days of use suggest that PLA becomes difficult in all sorts of other ways before brittleness becomes an issue, such as dribbling, hairy print, bed adhesion problems, deteriorating inter-layer adhesion. Certainly NEVER an issue for filament that has spent a few days standing in a tube. This is a non-problem.
"I had a Prusa XL5 but it catastrophically failed before I was able to do any tool changes or timing. I need to make a decision on whether to buy a replacement XL5 or go with a Bambu X1c AMS. Hence, my question."
Nuclear strike on your house? Direct hit on your machine from wild rocket fire, or a successful demolition by a wrecker crew? Honestly bro, how unlucky to be poised on the edge of a tool change and see your printer destroyed in that way, just prior. No wonder you would be looking at alternatives!
Less tongue in cheek, unless you are doing a lot of multi material and/or multi coloured printing, save yourself $5,000 and get the X1-C. But if you want to do bigger prints with less post printing reassembly; if you want to do multi material printing; and particularly if you want to do a lot of multi colour printing, the Prusa XL is way ahead. Regardless of what some random AI might mistakenly harvest from the Net
RE: Bard says the Bambu X1c swaps filaments faster than Prusa XL
There is an emerging issue with the XL relating to the use of PLA filament and multiple changers:
PLA becomes brittle and cracks in the tubes to individual tools.
I say “emerging” because multiple people are experiencing it, but it’s new enough that it isn’t entirely established.
It’s unclear why this is happening. The prevalent theory is that the PLA is absorbing moisture which makes it brittle and then cracks, sometimes in multiple segments in the same tube. It’s markedly worse for PLA in the tubes than on the spool.
What is surprising is how quickly it happens…this isn’t PLA sitting for days. And it seems to happen mostly in the long feeder tubes to the tools. It’s definitely an odd problem that will take time to either understand or debunk.
This is all new and we’re still learning. I am cautious because of my bad experience with the XL5 I received. I lost over $300 on non-refundable duties and shipping when I returned my XL5. I don’t want to go through that again.
I think the XL isn't an idea choice for those without a good amount of printing building. Support, at least for me, was willing to replace every single part in my xl by request with some troubleshooting of course. The printers is literary just the sum of its parts. I don't think you should get another one if you were unable to get the first one working.
I don't know what you experienced so maybe your issues were somehow software related depended on your model? If it was hardware they would have replace the defective parts. I've experienced model issues with all my printers. Like there be one thing that the printer doesn't like. Move that part over just a few mm's and life if good. I don't use PLA so I've no experience with the reported issues with that.
RE: Bard says the Bambu X1c swaps filaments faster than Prusa XL
I long ago sold off my Prusa printers and left the Prusa brand. I was encouraged to do so by the ever friendly people on this forum who, when I indicated I was going to try Bambu, told me to not let the screen door hit me in the butt.
I now have six Bambu X1c printers with AMS units and they tirelessly work around the clock. I simply cannot remember the last time I had a failed print (it wasn’t this year.)
The Prusa XL is undoubtedly better for lots of color swaps and very large models. But for anything short of that I don’t know why you might want one.
It is true that Bambu support is not as generous with parts as Prusa. Prusa is wise to generously offer many, many repair parts. Bambu’s takes a different approach: design stuff that works every time and rarely breaks and that doesn’t need parts.
I am glad to have started with Prusa. It was like Heathkit: a good learning experience. But now that my goal is making stuff, Bambu is the answer for me. Wow are they good!
RE:
I just got an xl 3 weeks ago and I can tell you swapping between filaments is quick it only takes a few seconds. As you can see in the video it only took about 4.5 seconds to switch heads and was printing the the second color. This is without a wipe tower most of what I have printed is without one. There is almost zero wasted filament and the print came out amazing. This is my first printer and I am very happy with it. I know someone that has the Bamboo and there is a lot of time to switch between the filaments and a lot of purging that wastes a lot of filament.
RE:
That is the beauty of this all right? My Bambu has needed more parts than Prusa. Not sure which one had more failed prints overall. Quality wise the XL wins by a large margin. I just can't duplicate the same quality on both machines. But I have a p1s and not a carbon. The carbon is a good step up over the p1s. At least one of the parts that broke up on my p1s would not have broken on a carbon. So there is that.
I'm more a Voron guy myself. Voron/ Prusa/ Bambu in that order for my particular needs. David, I see you're still here so you must have some interest in Prusa. Not sure why you were told to get out. And I honestly wouldn't recommend the XL to anyone I personally know. The difficulty in setting it up and keeping it running it's a bit more than my friends would be willing to put in. But their Core One appears to be much easier.
I long ago sold off my Prusa printers and left the Prusa brand. I was encouraged to do so by the ever friendly people on this forum who, when I indicated I was going to try Bambu, told me to not let the screen door hit me in the butt.
I now have six Bambu X1c printers with AMS units and they tirelessly work around the clock. I simply cannot remember the last time I had a failed print (it wasn’t this year.)
The Prusa XL is undoubtedly better for lots of color swaps and very large models. But for anything short of that I don’t know why you might want one.
It is true that Bambu support is not as generous with parts as Prusa. Prusa is wise to generously offer many, many repair parts. Bambu’s takes a different approach: design stuff that works every time and rarely breaks and that doesn’t need parts.
I am glad to have started with Prusa. It was like Heathkit: a good learning experience. But now that my goal is making stuff, Bambu is the answer for me. Wow are they good!
RE: Bard says the Bambu X1c swaps filaments faster than Prusa XL
I am no longer a Prusa guy. I got burned really really badly on the whole XL thing...years of lies about delivery and then a defective machine followed by non-existent support. There is just so far a company can abuse a customer before they aren't coming back again.
I have been exceptionally happy with Bambu X1c. I have six of them now and they just work flawlessly for me.
If you like Prusa, that's fine. If you like Voron that's fine. It makes no difference to me and I'm not a zealot.
At that time I found the Prusa forums arrogant and hostile and too-fanboy. I just wanted a printer that worked. The lurkers were rude and I left. I've been gone until this posting. For some reason it was in my inbox and I replied. I now regret doing that. Pretend I never answered. Sorry.
RE: Bard says the Bambu X1c swaps filaments faster than Prusa XL
Well that's certainly a very skewed view of the various 'contributions', including this thread, you made to this forum.
You started multiple threads that were filled with nothing but AI generated garbage and based on no personal experience of your own. You were aggressive, picked fights, couldn't take constructive feedback or criticism and attacked people that genuinely tried to help you.
You repeatedly exaggerated issues, and continue to do so in your last response with "years of lies about delivery", which has repeatedly been disproven.
I hope you don't do any NDA work if you have them connected online. It's well and truly proven and public knowledge that they get a copy of everything you send to them via the cloud. There is a reason they are banned in all US government agencies. If you want to throw shade at a company that constantly steals other people work and tells lies, you've picked one of the industry leaders in Bambu Labs.
That's before you get into all the IP theft when they launched MakerWorld and ported a ton of accounts from Printables, Thangs, etc without the users' permission and then refused to take the accounts down, despite repeated requests.
There is no shortage of people that have had support issues and lemon printers from BL as well. Carbon rods on the X1, the first 2 revisions of the AMS, the initial release of the A1 was a firestarter/electricution hazard and BL royally botched the management of that issue, etc. Add no realtime 24/7 support to go with it, no source of replacement parts till over a year after release and only after mass community outage. The list goes on.
Good luck with your Bambus. I'm glad you've found a solution that works for you.
I am no longer a Prusa guy. I got burned really really badly on the whole XL thing...years of lies about delivery and then a defective machine followed by non-existent support. There is just so far a company can abuse a customer before they aren't coming back again.
I have been exceptionally happy with Bambu X1c. I have six of them now and they just work flawlessly for me.
If you like Prusa, that's fine. If you like Voron that's fine. It makes no difference to me and I'm not a zealot.
At that time I found the Prusa forums arrogant and hostile and too-fanboy. I just wanted a printer that worked. The lurkers were rude and I left. I've been gone until this posting. For some reason it was in my inbox and I replied. I now regret doing that. Pretend I never answered. Sorry.
RE: Bard says the Bambu X1c swaps filaments faster than Prusa XL
You knew exactly what you were doing, coming on the boards, even posting a photo of your print farm. You accuse the forums of being arrogant, yet demonstrate arrogance with your post.
If you are running a business and handle client designs, your chosen ecosystem has a history of collecting customer data and not adhering to IP.
If you are not a “Prusa Guy”, then why are you here? Doesn’t Bambu provide a community forum for their ecosystem?
RE: Bard says the Bambu X1c swaps filaments faster than Prusa XL
- The bitter feelings I feel towards Prusa, even after a year, are not forgotten.
- I do not, and never have printed client designs. I have only ever printed by own designs, which are industrial/functional components.
- I am here because somehow, a posting from the Prusa forum got to my inbox when I thought everything was shut off.
- Bambu provides a forum, although if you went there you will see I rarely use it.
- Your posting is illustrative of the toxic attitude here. Just leave this thread alone, I'll go away.
As I said in my previous posting, I don't care if you like Prusa or Voron or any other printer. I am not a zealot. I'll allow you to have your Prusa opinion, allow me to have my Prusa opinion, and if we are both lucky nobody will post to this thread and I and everybody can just let it die quietly and we will be done with it.
Request: Let's let this treat quietly die, please.
RE: Bard says the Bambu X1c swaps filaments faster than Prusa XL
Why do you feel that you get to dictate terms? You do not own the forums. If seeing an email that there is a response, I can fix that for you. See, in your email client, there is a function called "Rules". You can create a rule that any email from Prusa3d.com goes straight into your deleted box.
Problem solved.
But do not try to dictate terms. You came here. As far as I know, other than an automated message, no one consciously reached out to you. You are trying to bully your way into having the final say.
RE: Bard says the Bambu X1c swaps filaments faster than Prusa XL
He always plays the victim.
RE: Bard says the Bambu X1c swaps filaments faster than Prusa XL
Are you suggesting that they'll treat me well on Bambu's forums? Keeping in mind that I'll be making threads bashing their printers and promoting what I feel is the superior printers.