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Still zero successful prints  

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JLTX
 JLTX
(@jltx)
Reputable Member
Still zero successful prints

I can get a few layers and color changes but eventually it always skips, stalls, jams, or catches fire. Is there a troubleshooting guide (not Prusa’s which is useless)?

Veröffentlicht : 27/10/2018 3:52 pm
Paul Meyer
(@paul-meyer)
Honorable Member
Re: Still zero successful prints

What filament are you using? What slic3r settings for temp and advanced settings (load/unload/ram)?

For me, the keys to success are:
- debug one thing at a time
- patience

Pick your most common fail and describe it here. We'll work on that.

General steps:
=> go through this guide carefully: troubleshooting.

Align everything multiple times. No room for slop. Consider putting on a fresh nozzle (completely anecdotal, but I had better luck once I replaced the nozzle I've been using for 9 months).

Look in from the right side of the extruder (with the door open). You'll see one of the bondtech gears and the little white PTFE tube below it. Make very sure they are aligned, that the top of the PTFE tube looks a bit like a funnel, that it has clean/well-formed edges, and it looks like it will catch filament coming in from above and guide it into the hot end. For me, this is one of the primary fail points. If it doesn't look good, open up your extruder and replace it (the kit came with a spare).

Make sure you have relatively low friction on your filament path.

Then try printing with two filaments, a part that has multiple colors on the first layer, preferably. Don't load them into filament 1 and filament 2 slots, put them in 1 and 3. Start printing. At *each* filament swap, after the selector moves over to the new filament, push the just unloaded filament out of the MMU2 so you can see the tip. Take a picture! Do this for the first 10 or so unloads of each filament.

If you have pretty well formed tips, like this:

and you are still having jams or other issues, come back here and explain the specifics. Your tip looks good and the issue is a mechanical one in the MMU2 or printer, not too hard to troubleshoot.

If your tips look more like this (or worse, or tangled):

then expect jams/issues. That tip is disaster waiting to happen. It can (and will):

  • cause unload issues because it keeps the finda triggered even after the MMU2 gears have unloaded the filament as far as they can

  • cause load issues because the tip gets caught and prevents the filament moving forward (at selector, bondtech, ptfe entrances)

  • cause skipped layers because the tip catches in the extruder. The printer thinks filament is loaded, but the bondtech is just grinding away not moving the filament

  • cause random issues as the strings get sheared off in the selector and start to build up over time (I've blown out dozens of little strings after some fails)
  • To control those strings, no perfect method, but some ideas:

  • try different filament. Prusament is supposed to be a good answer.

  • lower your temps a bit

  • try to increase your ram time (filament->advanced in slic3r)

  • try to change your unload speed
  • The important part here is to not just change a bunch of setting, watch another print fail, get frustrated and give up. (easy to do, I've been there). Instead, change one setting or group of settings, try a print, and look at your tips! Take pictures! Compare the pictures with the previous settings. See if the strings are longer/shorter/thicker/thinner. Learn how that change helped/hurt the tips. If it helped, try a bit further in the same direction. If it hurt, try the opposite direction. Then layer other changes on until you get clean tips.

    I'm still working through this, but I do have some pretty successful prints. Best print so far, 12 hours, 0.15, 4 filament, Inland PLA:

    Veröffentlicht : 27/10/2018 5:28 pm
    JLTX
     JLTX
    (@jltx)
    Reputable Member
    Themenstarter answered:
    Re: Still zero successful prints

    Thanks for the link to Peter's troubleshooting as I was looking for that. Unfortunately that is too basic for me. I'm well past that. Your idea to not use adjacent slots is very good (should have thought of that myself). The tips are for sure (most of) my problem. I am using Prusa PLA for initial testing and only 2 colors at a time. I tried filamentum but that jammed immediately. I agree only change one variable at a time.

    The main problem I have is the debug iteration is way too long and most of the path is hidden (clear bowden would have been better). For example, I want to change ramming settings to see if it helps. But I have to re-slice, calibrate loading, wait for bed to heat, other fiddling, print, fail, tear down machine to clear filament, beat my kids, start over. Is there a faster method? If the ramming was on the menu you could test right at the hot printer, over and over, with one filament, until the tip looks good.

    Veröffentlicht : 27/10/2018 5:49 pm
    Paul Meyer
    (@paul-meyer)
    Honorable Member
    Re: Still zero successful prints


    The main problem I have is the debug iteration is way too long and most of the path is hidden (clear bowden would have been better). For example, I want to change ramming settings to see if it helps. But I have to re-slice, calibrate loading, wait for bed to heat, other fiddling, print, fail, tear down machine to clear filament, beat my kids, start over. Is there a faster method? If the ramming was on the menu you could test right at the hot printer, over and over, with one filament, until the tip looks good.

    Agreed. I'm working on that. I see several stages:

  • a script that pulls the filament unload (ram) section of a gcode file out, and packs many load/unloads into a single gcode file. Ideally I'll unfold the ram into a straight line, and have hundreds of straight lines across the plate, each with a different setting. Ideally I can procedurally generate the ram settings, rather than just grepping them all from Slic3r gcode.

  • above script, combined with hacked MMU2 firmware to
  • move the selector away from the unloaded filament

  • use the mmu2 drive to stick the filament out to be visible

  • pull it back in

  • load the filament again

  • lather/rinse/repeat


  • much later: drive this all from octopi to trigger a photo of each filament unload. Then I can launch this, let it run for an hour, and have 100 different settings to examine the tips for!
  • I'm working on the script now. Firmware will be later. Pi much later.

    Veröffentlicht : 27/10/2018 8:47 pm
    PJR
     PJR
    (@pjr)
    Antient Member Moderator
    Re: Still zero successful prints


    Thanks for the link to Peter's troubleshooting as I was looking for that. Unfortunately that is too basic for me.

    Sorry 🙁

    Some PR support technicians have offered to help; I will give them a shout. It will be interesting to see how it works out.

    Peter

    Please note: I do not have any affiliation with Prusa Research. Any advices given are offered in good faith. It is your responsibility to ensure that by following my advice you do not suffer or cause injury, damage…

    Veröffentlicht : 27/10/2018 9:00 pm
    969493CD10A4
    (@969493cd10a4)
    Mitglied
    Re: Still zero successful prints

  • a script that pulls the filament unload (ram) section of a gcode file out, and packs many load/unloads into a single gcode file. Ideally I'll unfold the ram into a straight line, and have hundreds of straight lines across the plate, each with a different setting. Ideally I can procedurally generate the ram settings, rather than just grepping them all from Slic3r gcode.
  • This would be really nice for us MMU2 noobs that are pulling our hair out.

    Veröffentlicht : 27/10/2018 10:56 pm
    JLTX
     JLTX
    (@jltx)
    Reputable Member
    Themenstarter answered:
    Re: Still zero successful prints



    Thanks for the link to Peter's troubleshooting as I was looking for that. Unfortunately that is too basic for me.

    Sorry 🙁

    Some PR support technicians have offered to help; I will give them a shout. It will be interesting to see how it works out.

    Peter

    No worries. Good stuff, I'm just beyond that now.

    Veröffentlicht : 28/10/2018 2:38 am
    JLTX
     JLTX
    (@jltx)
    Reputable Member
    Themenstarter answered:
    Re: Still zero successful prints



    The main problem I have is the debug iteration is way too long and most of the path is hidden (clear bowden would have been better). For example, I want to change ramming settings to see if it helps. But I have to re-slice, calibrate loading, wait for bed to heat, other fiddling, print, fail, tear down machine to clear filament, beat my kids, start over. Is there a faster method? If the ramming was on the menu you could test right at the hot printer, over and over, with one filament, until the tip looks good.

    Agreed. I'm working on that. I see several stages:

  • a script that pulls the filament unload (ram) section of a gcode file out, and packs many load/unloads into a single gcode file. Ideally I'll unfold the ram into a straight line, and have hundreds of straight lines across the plate, each with a different setting. Ideally I can procedurally generate the ram settings, rather than just grepping them all from Slic3r gcode.

  • above script, combined with hacked MMU2 firmware to
  • move the selector away from the unloaded filament

  • use the mmu2 drive to stick the filament out to be visible

  • pull it back in

  • load the filament again

  • lather/rinse/repeat


  • much later: drive this all from octopi to trigger a photo of each filament unload. Then I can launch this, let it run for an hour, and have 100 different settings to examine the tips for!
  • I'm working on the script now. Firmware will be later. Pi much later.

    Sounds great!

    Veröffentlicht : 28/10/2018 2:39 am
    Flaviu
    (@flaviu)
    Estimable Member
    Re: Still zero successful prints

    I think a lot of people are now on the same success level as I am which is prints with around 100-150 color changes (around 5 hours print) works fine.

    But going up to over 300 color changes (12+ hours of print) produces at least one mistake in the part.

    From here on doing the next step in the right direction with the settings is very time and filament consuming 😥

    Veröffentlicht : 28/10/2018 10:02 am
    JLTX
     JLTX
    (@jltx)
    Reputable Member
    Themenstarter answered:
    Re: Still zero successful prints

    I would like to point out that I believe my only problem is the stringy tips and that there is a razor blade built in to solve this but it is disabled. Putting all this debug burden on the users is poor choice. Just slice off those tips. What am I missing?

    Veröffentlicht : 28/10/2018 3:28 pm
    toaf
     toaf
    (@toaf)
    Noble Member
    Re: Still zero successful prints

    im trying to think of where the sliced off tips would go. almost wondering if the knife was supposed to work semi like the palette. without the fusing.

    I have a Prusa,therefore I research.

    Veröffentlicht : 28/10/2018 4:24 pm
    JLTX
     JLTX
    (@jltx)
    Reputable Member
    Themenstarter answered:
    Re: Still zero successful prints


    im trying to think of where the sliced off tips would go. almost wondering if the knife was supposed to work semi like the palette. without the fusing.

    There is a trough below the selector where they collect. I accidentally cut some when I was first getting it set up because some filament was protruding when the selector went by.

    Veröffentlicht : 28/10/2018 6:59 pm
    toaf
     toaf
    (@toaf)
    Noble Member
    Re: Still zero successful prints

    can they fall out themselves or do they just collect and jam it up over time?

    I have a Prusa,therefore I research.

    Veröffentlicht : 28/10/2018 7:02 pm
    JLTX
     JLTX
    (@jltx)
    Reputable Member
    Themenstarter answered:
    Re: Still zero successful prints


    can they fall out themselves or do they just collect and jam it up over time?

    You need to empty them. Could be a pain. But worth it if I could get a clean print

    Veröffentlicht : 28/10/2018 7:30 pm
    JLTX
     JLTX
    (@jltx)
    Reputable Member
    Themenstarter answered:
    Re: Still zero successful prints

    So I needed to do a single color print for a project and used the single mmu setting. After starting the print it asked me which filament to use. The print went fine.

    But at completion, when it went to unload the filament it did this elaborate maneuver of maybe three retract / advance before finally unloading. I was sure it was busted. But on unload I got the cleanest tip I’ve ever had.

    Oddly this caused the unload to *fail*! It went too far and backed off the gear altogether. So I can’t win.

    Veröffentlicht : 28/10/2018 7:37 pm
    PJR
     PJR
    (@pjr)
    Antient Member Moderator
    Re: Still zero successful prints


    So I needed to do a single color print for a project and used the single mmu setting. After starting the print it asked me which filament to use. The print went fine.

    But at completion, when it went to unload the filament it did this elaborate maneuver of maybe three retract / advance before finally unloading. I was sure it was busted. But on unload I got the cleanest tip I’ve ever had.

    Oddly this caused the unload to *fail*! It went too far and backed off the gear altogether. So I can’t win.

    I am guessing that there was a string left behind in the FINDA, which didn't then untrigger. Or it didn't properly unload from the extruder. Check the last half meter or so of the filament to see if there is any grinding.

    Peter

    Please note: I do not have any affiliation with Prusa Research. Any advices given are offered in good faith. It is your responsibility to ensure that by following my advice you do not suffer or cause injury, damage…

    Veröffentlicht : 28/10/2018 8:56 pm
    toaf
     toaf
    (@toaf)
    Noble Member
    Re: Still zero successful prints

    at least the tip looked good

    I have a Prusa,therefore I research.

    Veröffentlicht : 28/10/2018 9:10 pm
    JLTX
     JLTX
    (@jltx)
    Reputable Member
    Themenstarter answered:
    Re: Still zero successful prints



    So I needed to do a single color print for a project and used the single mmu setting. After starting the print it asked me which filament to use. The print went fine.

    But at completion, when it went to unload the filament it did this elaborate maneuver of maybe three retract / advance before finally unloading. I was sure it was busted. But on unload I got the cleanest tip I’ve ever had.

    Oddly this caused the unload to *fail*! It went too far and backed off the gear altogether. So I can’t win.

    I am guessing that there was a string left behind in the FINDA, which didn't then untrigger. Or it didn't properly unload from the extruder. Check the last half meter or so of the filament to see if there is any grinding.

    Peter

    You nailed it. I removed the finda and ball and look what I found:

    What’s interesting is I don’t where this debris is coming from. It is super wispy, reminds me of snake skin molting. Ideas?

    Veröffentlicht : 28/10/2018 10:37 pm
    JLTX
     JLTX
    (@jltx)
    Reputable Member
    Themenstarter answered:
    Re: Still zero successful prints


    at least the tip looked good

    Except that came from a single color print. I don’t know how to reproduce those extruder moves with the multicolor unload sequence, so I always get strings.

    Veröffentlicht : 28/10/2018 10:39 pm
    JLTX
     JLTX
    (@jltx)
    Reputable Member
    Themenstarter answered:
    Re: Still zero successful prints

    fount this, but not sure where it came from because that section in Slic3r is empty. I'm pretty sure this is what I saw that made the perfect tip. Need to test...

    ; Filament-specific end gcode
    G1 X0 Y210 F7200
    G1 E2 F5000
    G1 E2 F5500
    G1 E2 F6000
    G1 E-15.0000 F5800
    G1 E-20.0000 F5500
    G1 E10.0000 F3000
    G1 E-10.0000 F3100
    G1 E10.0000 F3150
    G1 E-10.0000 F3250
    G1 E10.0000 F3300

    Veröffentlicht : 29/10/2018 12:53 am
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