Concept plan for adding a E3D Chimera...  

Re: Concept plan for adding a E3D Chimera...

I think the Net would explode if this hypothetical printer came out (finished it yet Josef?) 😆

Back to reality: It all depends what you use your printer for, I use mine for a bit of everything from decorative objects to practical parts for things, from toys to prop replica's from TV/movies! There are lots of times I would like to be able to print in different colours within the same print and not just on separate layers. The Prusa Colour Change feature is OK if the thing you're printing only has one or two distinct coloured layers in it, but when you add more coloured layers and multi colours within a single layer then it is no use!

Also the is the option of using a different filament for supports to make them easier to dissolve away.

Now if all you print is practical parts for things then most of the time you're only ever going to want one colour, but even there there can be advantages and aesthetic reasons to add a bit of colour!

With 3D Printers becoming more popular just for home use they need to be simple and easy to use which I believe is Josef's goal! Hence my suggestion at this stage of just a chimera hotend. Most people don't have a clue how to hack, modify, or design printers and their parts, nor do they want to.

I could live with just a dual-extruder but would love a Kraken quad-extruder! But I don't like the idea of a water cooled extruder, they need to find a way to air cool it.

Some dual-extruded things off the net that I'd like to have a go at:

Re: Concept plan for adding a E3D Chimera...

Question: Have you looked at how you would slice those models?

Peter

Re: Concept plan for adding a E3D Chimera...

From what I understand Simplify3D, Cura and Slic3r can do it.

Simplify3D video here:

There''s a video for Cura here:

There's a section in the Slic3r manual here: http://manual.slic3r.org/expert-mode/multiple-extruders

They're getting better and easier all the time...

When I first looked at what printer I'd like, and I made a list of the features I wanted, it matched the Original Prusa i3 Plus perfectly apart from three things: a 300mmx300mmx300mm print area, auto calibration and a dual extruder. Thanks to it matching another item from my wishlist - easy to upgrade - it now has a bigger print area (even if not as big as I'd've liked) and auto calibration! A dual extruder would be then next thing I'd like to see upgraded, and maybe eventually a 300mmx300mmx300mm print area...

The biggest hurdle I think with the duel extruder is overcoming the weight of adding a second extrusion motor to the x-carriage. I don't know whether there are smaller motors with sufficient power and torque to do the job. I don't think Josef wants to go down the bowden path at this stage...

There is actually a printer designed that uses the CMYK+W method! It also has 2 other nozzles for printing flexible filament and dissolvable supports!! See it here: http://www.3ders.org/articles/20160727-ord-solutions-rova4d-full-color-blender-3d-printer-immediate-success-on-kickstarter.html

Re: Concept plan for adding a E3D Chimera...

How about looking at a dual extruder which only uses a single motor? In theory it should be able to have 2 filament drive gears which are alternately engaged by an electronic clutch mechanism, and sharing the hot end.

The RAMBo Mini could be adapted ever-so-slightly to operate that setup.

Just thinking out loud...

Peter

Re: Concept plan for adding a E3D Chimera...

Maybe if the mechanism is readily available... Would it add too much complication to the design though? Remember - simple and easy to use.

Re: Concept plan for adding a E3D Chimera...

I wonder if anyone has tried using RC Servo motors for the extruder? If it's possible it would be small enough and light enough to have 2 Chimeras back-to-back on the carriage without significantly increasing the weight...

Re: Concept plan for adding a E3D Chimera...

Servo motors:

1. Not accurate enough
2. Not powerful enough
3. Relatively Large manufacturing tolerance.
4. When operating without endstops, there is no way of accurately controlling degree of rotation.

Sorry... 😥

Peter

Edit: you could use them for swapping filament drive pulleys though...

Re: Concept plan for adding a E3D Chimera...

Edit: you could use them for swapping filament drive pulleys though...

That's an idea!

Re: Concept plan for adding a E3D Chimera...

Offtopic: servo can be used as special type of emergency power off device. Attach servo arm to main power switch on PSU and command it to power everything off when something goes terribly wrong. 😉

Re: Concept plan for adding a E3D Chimera...

Read what Josef says in the comments to this Facebook post.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/5809198019/?multi_permalinks=10153960095348020&notif_t=group_highlights&notif_id=1469502751077377

Re: Concept plan for adding a E3D Chimera...

Thanks for that Richard!

Now this is interesting... But isn't this virtually the same as the E3D Cyclops?

These seem to waste an awful lot of filament by needing a 'colour-change tower'!!

So we no from another thread that Josef is looking into a new driver board, and now dual extrusion! The futures looking bright... well certainly colourful at least! 😆 😀

Re: Concept plan for adding a E3D Chimera...

It looks to be somewhat similar to the Cyclops.

I have used the Cyclops/Chimera on my home-built machine and it isn't worth the trouble. The Cyclops suffered from easy clogging due to the massive retraction required.

The Chimera was just a real pain trying to make sure the nozzles were exactly level with each other and even when they were it would still drag across and pull the print up. Nozzle ooze was also a problem.

Until there is a better solution for multi-color printing I am staying as far away as I can from it!

Re: Concept plan for adding a E3D Chimera...

That's sad to hear Richard... maybe Josef can crack it then. It sounds like it needs a tiny little mixing chamber within the nozzle like the Diamond Hotend/Nozzle to avoid large retractions... I'm sure Josef will sort it...

Is it done yet Josef?

Now?

How about now?

Now?

🙄 Yes I was one of those kids! 😆

Re: Concept plan for adding a E3D Chimera...

OK codded up that last post! I keep getting confused whether we are talking about dual extruders or colour-blend extruders!! 😕

Obviously my post about a mixing chamber is irrelevant to dual extrusion! 😳

Let me try again:

That's sad to hear Richard... I'm sure Josef and his team can crack it. It can't be easy to reduce the retraction as the filament has got to be pulled back far enough to clear the nozzle, but not so far as to leave the hot end or it may gum up the tube. However, a lot of printers 'leak' filament when that extruder is idle so how to avoid a bit of the wrong colour mixing in? The obvious answer is more retraction, but that is the opposite of what we want! So the heated tubes for the filament would be best if they ran down through the nozzle to nearly the tip before joining together... but that would require a fixed nozzle/hotend combined, so would stop us changing nozzle sizes!! Quite the job they've got to design this!! So...

Is it done yet Josef?

Now?

How about now?

Now?

😆 Yes I am STILL one of those (big) kids! 😆

Re: Concept plan for adding a E3D Chimera...

Having just read up on Conductive Graphene Filament, I'm even more keen for a Dual Extruder! I hope Prusa are working on one as hinted!!

While the Graphene could be laid done on the surface using the ColourPrint option, I like the idea of it being laid in shallow 'trenches' and to be able to make 2 sided PCBs. Even more as the graphene can be embedded inside the PCB using dual extrusion!!

Roll on the next upgrade! 😀

Re: Concept plan for adding a E3D Chimera...

Have you seen this: Geeetech Prusa I3 M201 2-IN-1-OUT 3D Printer DIY Kit

Sounds like one ought to be able to do this with the multi-filament upgrade that Josef is bringing out. Would be nice...