Concept plan for adding a E3D Chimera...
I have no idea if something like this would work. I've omitted the 3D Printed parts, fans and screws as someone better than me would have to design all that! This is just to help inspire others not something I would try myself.
The idea is for a direct drive dual extruder with minimal changes needed to the existing design. This would (I think) just require the extruder parts to be changed leaving the x-carriage the same. It should still allow the x maximum print dimensions to stay the same as well as I don't think it would need to be any wider than the existing part.
Hope this helps someone...
Re: Concept plan for adding a E3D Chimera...
Question: Are you considering this as a Bowden style or is the intention to install 2 extruder motors onto the print head?
If the former then where would you mount the motor and filament spools?
If the latter then the additional weight may become an issue.
Peter
Please note: I do not have any affiliation with Prusa Research. Any advices given are offered in good faith. It is your responsibility to ensure that by following my advice you do not suffer or cause injury, damage…
Re: Concept plan for adding a E3D Chimera...
Just let me say first that this is just a concept idea not something I plan on doing... posted to help inspire others (like my flexishaft idea 😆 )
The idea would be for it to be a direct drive, fixed to the x-carriage in a similar way that the current one is. Quite a few people seem to use to motors on the x-carriage for dual extrusion with no problems so I was trying to think of a design that would fit the Prusa MK2...
Of course what we're all waiting for is Josef to come up with something superb! 😆
I'm hoping that the next upgrade kit Prusa bring out is a dual extrusion upgrade!
Re: Concept plan for adding a E3D Chimera...
Does anyone know what it is that determines the type of motor used for the extruder(s)? Torque? Current? One of the other many specifications?!?
I'm wondering if my design above could work and if smaller motors are a possibility...
Re: Concept plan for adding a E3D Chimera...
I hope 😀 next step will be RGB or CMYK color print - not dual extruder 😀 😀 😀
Re: Concept plan for adding a E3D Chimera...
That'd be great Yuri! I've seen some videos of them using the Diamond Hotend and the results are looking promising but I wonder if it's quite ready for mass release as there will be a need for 100% accurate Red, Green & Blue Filament in order for the mixing to work and secondly it would require a Bowden drive (well 3 actually) which I don't think Josef is keen to to use in his printer due to the problems they introduce.
One day maybe though...
Re: Concept plan for adding a E3D Chimera...
I'd like the idea of a multicolor hotend too.
But remember that printheads are not like videomonitors where mixing Red green and blue result in a white pixel.
With light it works like that, with filament not so much:
If you mix Red Green and Blue filament you end up with something BROWN. certainly not white 😉
Re: Concept plan for adding a E3D Chimera...
Dimitri
Yes, that's "Additive" vs "Subtractive" mixing. When you go into a DIY store and ask for a tin of paint to be mixed to your required colour, the first pigment used is white. This would be the same requirement, hence at least 4 filaments required.
Peter
Please note: I do not have any affiliation with Prusa Research. Any advices given are offered in good faith. It is your responsibility to ensure that by following my advice you do not suffer or cause injury, damage…
Re: Concept plan for adding a E3D Chimera...
Good point Dimitri and Peter... So the Diamond Hotend is actually not the final answer! We need a 4 filament hotend, plus I think it could do with redesigning (E3D are you listening 😆 ) with a single heatsink with tubes for all four filaments (R,G,B,White), just like the E3D Kraken...
Hang on, what about black? Doesn't that need it's own filament?
Re: Concept plan for adding a E3D Chimera...
Theoretically, add R, G & B to get black, but it turns out to be a disgusting mess...
Peter
Please note: I do not have any affiliation with Prusa Research. Any advices given are offered in good faith. It is your responsibility to ensure that by following my advice you do not suffer or cause injury, damage…
Re: Concept plan for adding a E3D Chimera...
Oh dear! Then I guess it'd need 5 filaments, R G B, White & black! Still I'm sure it could be done as the filament tubes are only small and if the heatsinks are combined...
Re: Concept plan for adding a E3D Chimera...
Water Cooling is the answer to the heatsink size. Then no fans required and smaller sinks.
You are building a monster...
Peter
Please note: I do not have any affiliation with Prusa Research. Any advices given are offered in good faith. It is your responsibility to ensure that by following my advice you do not suffer or cause injury, damage…
Re: Concept plan for adding a E3D Chimera...
Oh gawd, sounds like it is all getting a bit complicated for a home printer!! 5 Filaments, probably a bowden system, water cooling, eek!!!! 😮 😆
OK, back to a the Chimera idea... 😀
Re: Concept plan for adding a E3D Chimera...
Maybe there is another idea, I'm not sure if better. External mixing unit. Several input filament strings are melted, mixed in right ratio and formed back into one output filament string which goes to extruder. Mixing unit would have to work in advance of print, of course. It would allow to keep extruder simple, but put more complicated stuff outside of it and add some more problems to solve. 😉 😎
Re: Concept plan for adding a E3D Chimera...
Now that's a great idea. I am looking for a machine to re-extrude 1.75mm waste plastic.
Even better, we could have plastic bead (raw material) hoppers on top, one for each colour and mix/match and extrude the correct colour filament as required...
Peter
Please note: I do not have any affiliation with Prusa Research. Any advices given are offered in good faith. It is your responsibility to ensure that by following my advice you do not suffer or cause injury, damage…
Re: Concept plan for adding a E3D Chimera...
At this rate the Prusa MK10 will be the size of a van, cost as much and need it's own outbuilding to house it!!! LOL! 😮 😆
Then the arguments will start... What is better RGB+Black+White or CMYK+White?? Does it never end?!?!?!?!!
😀 😆
Don't forget to add the 4GHz Controller board with 12GB RAM, 19" Touchscreen monitor Monitor, buit in enclosure heating (and the enclosure), 99 point mesh bed levelling with Live-Z, Live-X, Live-Y Adjustments, self diagnosis 360° camera! 😛 😆 😯 😮
Did I mention just two colours would do for now? 😀
Re: Concept plan for adding a E3D Chimera...
Oh come on don't exaggerate, we are only discussing the extruder after all.
CMYK include the white (Chrominance/"lightness") I believe, so you are good to go with that one... Except that is for additive colour mixing and we are dealing here with subtractive, so RGBW (and I hope I have that the correct way round; I don't want any more complaints...)
Peter
EDIT: and the levelling meso should be 8x8 (64 points), 9 x 9 (81 points) or 10x10 (100 points) definately not 99 points...
EDIT: and the bed must be at least 1 metre square with the same build height.
Oh and prints should take a maximum of 1 hour
Please note: I do not have any affiliation with Prusa Research. Any advices given are offered in good faith. It is your responsibility to ensure that by following my advice you do not suffer or cause injury, damage…
Re: Concept plan for adding a E3D Chimera...
😯
Don't want much do we? 😆
While we're at it then I want it to be able to print circuitry directly into the object, and a graphene battery ( http://www.3ders.org/articles/20160726-new-3d-printed-graphene-super-batteries-by-swinburne-researchers-will-last-a-lifetime.html )!
Come on Josef, what's taking you so long! 😈 😀
Re: Concept plan for adding a E3D Chimera...
Regarding the colours, CMYK+White should work IMO, as in common printing systems, where white is provided by paper. Thus you need 5 basic filament colours to cover all colour palette.
I really look forward to misery in the form of tuning colour profiles of slicers to achieve 100% WYSIWYG. 😆
Re: Concept plan for adding a E3D Chimera...
Yeah and all run off a solar cell on top of the van.
I think that we (and especially me) need to come back down and make this into a sensible thread for extruder improvement.
For me, there would be little point in having a dual extruder; there have been no instances (to date) where I have needed to print 2 colours in one layer (and I could find a method to do that). The only thing that would really interest me would be a 4-filament extruder, but again, I really don't know how I would use such a beast.
Si I think the question should be what do we want and, perhaps more importantly, Why?
Peter
Please note: I do not have any affiliation with Prusa Research. Any advices given are offered in good faith. It is your responsibility to ensure that by following my advice you do not suffer or cause injury, damage…