Prusament ASA sticking too well on PEI sheet  

RE: Prusament ASA sticking too well on PEI sheet

yep, glue stick or some kind of separator for ASA on smooth PEI

normally don't need it for ASA on textured sheet.

RE: Prusament ASA sticking too well on PEI sheet

Posted by: @swiss_cheese

yep, glue stick or some kind of separator for ASA on smooth PEI

normally don't need it for ASA on textured sheet.

Hm... this page:

https://help.prusa3d.com/en/article/asa_1809

says quite opposite: textuded plate is NOT reccomended, since ASA sticks too wel on it...

RE: Prusament ASA sticking too well on PEI sheet

@protoncek

Yeah, that's what I've read as well: "do NOT use textured plate".
But then again - I was under the impression that the textured sheet was specifically designed to reduce adhesion, so why not?

Some conflicting information here. So do I use glue stick, despite them saying not to?

Here's what they say on the ASA product page on their web shop:

"Print sheet preparation

For ASA printing, we recommend using the smooth PEI spring steel sheet. With the powder-coated sheet, the adhesion of the material can be too strong, which could potentially result in damage to the surface of the sheet. The smooth sheet preparation is easy: simply clean the surface with isopropyl alcohol. To remove the print, wait until it cools down – it will then pop off easily."

Note the last bit: "It will then pop off easily". 
Uhm, I think not.

RE: Prusament ASA sticking too well on PEI sheet

I started printing ASA (from Fillamentum) yesterday and have the same problem.

Getting the print off is a little easier after it cooled down, but "pop off easily" is just not true. Even the primer line is almost impossible to get off.

My main concern: The spot where the print was located is now full of tiny bubbles. Does this harm the PEI sheet? Yesterday it also looked like the coating was partially lifted off....

I will try the glue stick on my next print as release agent. Maybe it is also worth a try to put the print with the sheet into the freezer?

RE: Prusament ASA sticking too well on PEI sheet

Posted by: @christian-ho

Even the primer line is almost impossible to get off.

Yeah, when I eventually did get my print off it left like a fraction-thin plastic residue imprint on the PEI sheet. I had to scrape that off with a knife to get the sheet clean. Don't think I damaged the sheet too badly, but I don't want to go through that again.

Posted by: @christian-ho

My main concern: The spot where the print was located is now full of tiny bubbles. Does this harm the PEI sheet? Yesterday it also looked like the coating was partially lifted off....

Yeah, my PEI sheet is like that as well now. Full of tiny small bubbles. I assume this is a result of the high build plate temperature. It doesn't look like this has damaged the sheet in any way, but it's clear that the PEI adhesive did not like the increased temperature.

RE: Prusament ASA sticking too well on PEI sheet

I think that textured plate is more likely to get damaged than smooth. On smooth one there’s a label through whole plate, while textured is sprayed, so i guess that particles can detach  from plate and remain on ASA more easily...

And...smooth sheet is full of bubbles when printing ABS, too. I guess that it’s because of high temperature. Usually those bubbles go away with time (well, mostly...).

(Oh,...sorry about changed name... i changed my email and now this happens... 😪 ) 

RE: Prusament ASA sticking too well on PEI sheet

Tiny bubbles also appear when printing ABS. Usually they dissapear after a while (well... mostly).

Regarding plate: i guess that problem with textured is the fact that it's sprayed, so particles of that PEI sprayed material can detach and damage the plate. Smooth plate is made with whole PEI sticker, so it's harder to damage.

RE: Prusament ASA sticking too well on PEI sheet

well that's my advice, you do as you see fit.

RE: Prusament ASA sticking too well on PEI sheet

@swiss_cheese

Well, I am inclined to agree with you. Printing on textured sheet instead or use glue stick on smooth sheet makes sense.
I just don't get why Prusa would recommend doing the exact opposite.

I have a couple of rolls of ASA from other brands (Print with smile & Smartfil). I'm gonna test those to see if this is a generic ASA problem or just a prusament thing.

RE: Prusament ASA sticking too well on PEI sheet

Let the steel plats cool down before removing parts, otherwise you will damage the sheets.

If it sticks to much use glue stick or window cleaner, then try if it works.

RE: Prusament ASA sticking too well on PEI sheet

Posted by: @loadinglevelone

@swiss_cheese

Well, I am inclined to agree with you. Printing on textured sheet instead or use glue stick on smooth sheet makes sense.
I just don't get why Prusa would recommend doing the exact opposite.

I have a couple of rolls of ASA from other brands (Print with smile & Smartfil). I'm gonna test those to see if this is a generic ASA problem or just a prusament thing.

Well since you put it that way, I'll make an effort to save you some more headaches. When printing ASA,ABS,or TPU/TPE on Smooth PEI you will want a layer of glue or some kind of separator down before printing (glue is tried and true) if your printing PC, some kind of PC Blend or Nylon you will want a double layer of Glue or whatever you decide to use (Glue is an oldie but goodie) if your printing PETG on Smooth PEI Windex is king, and I have learned also that you can use Locally sourced oils from your body, I know it sounds odd, but forehead grease works, I learned that one here a few months ago.

when printing PETG, ASA and ABS on textured sheets you don't need anything, when printing TPU you can get away without using a separator on textured sheets depending on the model, but your really better off using one, and also it will sometimes help PLA to stick better since the textured sheets don't get along well with PLA as a general rule. for Nylon and PC always use glue, that's the basics.

If you do find that you are stuck fast then you have two options, one dribble a little IPA around the outer edges of the stuck model and wait for it to soak in, (this has never worked for me, But I hear it can, from folks whose opinion I feel I can trust, and the greatest of them all, the one I know works,   20 minutes or so  in the freezer.

Good luck

RE: Prusament ASA sticking too well on PEI sheet

I forgot, one caveat to using the freezer, make sure the model has cooled to room temperature before putting it in the freezer.

RE: Prusament ASA sticking too well on PEI sheet

Ok, so just to clarify:
The final answer is to take what Prusa tells you - then do the exact opposite.

Gotcha! 😀

RE: Prusament ASA sticking too well on PEI sheet

...but all jokes aside. I'm fully aware that glue stick is an go t thing. Heck, I've even had to resort to glue stick for a certain type of PLA's because it stuck too well and was impossible to release from the build sheet. It's just strange that they specifically tell you to have a IPA clean build sheet and absolutely not to print on the textured sheet. But hey, guess even prusa makes mistakes sometimes 🙂

RE: Prusament ASA sticking too well on PEI sheet

I think PRUSA recommends the powder coated 'satin' sheet as opposed to the powder coated 'textured' sheet.  Since the satin sheet is new I haven't tried it yet.  I have found that after cooling, wetting the plate/part interface with isopropyl alcohol helps the release it if it is stuck.   Trying to release it quickly may lift the coating on the plate particularly if the plate is hot.  I use a wood chisel bevel edge toward the plate as a lever to help apply controlled force.  I also normally have a filleted bottom edge so that it is easier to get a grip on it.

RE: Prusament ASA sticking too well on PEI sheet

To reduce sticking on plates, you can use cleaning windows product instead of IPA.

RE: Prusament ASA sticking too well on PEI sheet

I never experienced any less sticking with any of windows products, available in my region an i tried several different ones quite many times. And, to be honest, i really don’t see any good reason why windex should make a plate less sticky ... it contains alcohol, water, parfume, that’s it...? It’s made for windows cleaning in a way that nothing should remain on windows once it’s cleaned... 

so, where’s the catch?

RE: Prusament ASA sticking too well on PEI sheet

@loadinglevelone

In this case I have to say yes, I've printed kg's & kg's of these materials and this is how I've done it.

I own 4 smooth PEI sheets, 3 MK3 style printers, 2 textured sheets, and a Partridge in a Pear tree , and none of them are damaged and the Partridge is still stuck in that tree. <--(sorry can't stop making bad jokes)  Although like you I had a close call with ABS and also ASA on smooth PEI, Imagine my shock and horror when I did my first ABS print on smooth PEI, I was sure the sheet was ruined, I had never been on the forums at that time and had never read the Prusa recommendations, I had learned from other printing experience that ABS could at times be difficult to stick, so I threw on a print expecting it not to stick so well, but wanted to see how it goes, well it went, it was at that time, as a last resort I thought of the freezer and I was very happy that worked.

From that day forward if I didn't know how a material was going to act, I was a glue stick first ask questions later kinda guy. I learned with Nylon that you have to double the glue stick, my theory is that because the bed is so hot the first layer of glue kinda evaporates a bit more then normal, and after it dries I put on an entire other layer in a crisscross pattern # it works for me. works for PC Blends also.

here's another learn as you go moment from Swiss_Cheese: I print a lot of multi-material prints (not multi color) and I had been printing TPU on one of my textured sheets, it was sticking really well, but I found I was able peel up one edge and pull the prints off the bed with relative ease, kinda like peeling a piece of gum from the bottom of your shoe. So I wasn't using glue as a separator.

One day I found a need to print with a TPU ,PETG combo and without really thinking it through I printed the TPU at the base, and then printed a ridged PETG shape on top of it, <--((mistake) it wouldn't come off, no trick no previous method or the will of god (if you believe in that kinda thing) was going to release that part. But I didn't panic!, I picked up my towel, put it firmly around my neck, clinching my textured sheet I walk slowly, unsure towards the kitchen sink where Instant hot resides.

The instant hot, In case you don't know is a separate faucet at the sink basin that produces instantly scalding hot water 100C /212F, and in my minds eye I saw this just kinda melting the print from the bed, well that's not really how it went 🤨 , but it did help remove the print from my textured bed without damage to the bed. when I reprinted the part I used glue stick and it went much better that time. 😉

RE: Prusament ASA sticking too well on PEI sheet

@protoncek

Don't know what the catch is, however I do know if you get some original Windex glass cleaner you can try it and see for yourself.

for me, and apparently many others, it works flawlessly for Printing PETG on smooth PEI and provides a release from my sheet almost exactly like printing PLA on smooth PEI.

with great adhesion through out my prints. I have found that while glue stick works for PETG on PEI it tends to allow the overlapping ends to curl in places as the first layer is printing as well as giving some texture if I have put the glue on heavy, so I see cleaner easier printing results from Windex when printing PETG and no damage to my smooth PEI sheets.

I have tried other window cleaners, and not had the same results, so right or wrong, I recommend Original Windex specifically, as it's proved to me to work great. I'm sure other folks have had other experiences.

Good luck