PETG first layer woes with satin sheet  

RE: PETG first layer woes with satin sheet

As a follow-up. I've made significant progress with the problem. One thing hasn't been mentioned in this forum so far: I sweat a lot. I need to wear gloves.

My hands/skin tends to be more oily than average, which is great for not needing much moisturizer, not so great for 3d printing it turns out. To solve this I need to:

- Clean the plate with soap and water when it doesn't stick

- Wear gloves when handling the plate or removing prints (I repurposed my cut-resistant gloves for this, they work well)

- Adjust live-z with light filament and bright light (previously using black and my phone light).

I had previously cleaned with soap and water, but then turned right around and kept touching the plate so I essentially negated that effort. Plus without live-z in the sweet spot, no other changes really mattered. Live z and gloves are key.

It's still not a guaranteed stick, but it's done more than anything else I've tried. Previously I thought the IPA wipe before each print was enough, but apparently not. Even tiny amounts of contact with the plate have a big effect. I also had never considered oils from my hands were on the papertowel I was using to clean.

## Before

For anyone else, here's a list of things I tried:

- Filamend dryer (sunlu v2)

- Store filament with dessicant in plastic bins

- Wipe with IPA before every print

- Switch from paper towel to blue "shop towel" for less lint

- Fold the towel so the non-tear side is what touches the plate when I wipe it.

- Use an electric air duster to blow off the sheet after IPA dries to get rid of lint

- Clean print head before printing. Make sure no print residue (qtip and IPA, every time)

- Preheat printer before printing (this causes filament to ooze)

Then after triggering a print as it's lowering, swipe up the dangling ooze with a qtip (so it doesn't attach to the nozzle)

If I don't do this sometimes it curls back on itself and attaches to the nozzle in a way that the wipe won't fix. Better to start with less goo to begin with.

- 1/4" husky brand torque wrench for tensioning the nozzle

- Replace the nozzle, made sure to buy from E3D and not a knock off

- Mess with print temps for bed and nozzle (ultimately I'm back on "Generic PETG" profile, using Overture PETG filament)

- Did a bunch of calibration steps. Nothing was off really, nothing here did much (except live-z)

- Dial in z-height

## Reflection

I previously thought I had z height dialed in, but turns out I was off. I got some advice that really helped: use a light filament when adjusting and that was key. I was previously using black and it just didn't show the imperfections like white did. Also I invested in a really bright 500 lumen light (or rather repurposed one I already had).

I realized I had an issue when I couldn't print a toy octopus with small feet with PLA for my kiddo without a brim. Then I printed something really wide and flat and messed with the settings until they were just right (I've been printing gridfinity and it gives me lots of nice squares I can compare). I did this in PLA.

Turns out, I was too close to the print bed. I was worried about adhesion so I kept going closer. I also read that PETG likes to be laid down rather then pressed. I don't know how true that is, but seems to hold up to my experiences.

I'm still not where I want to be. I think my next step is to keep adjusting my live-z with PETG and white filament, likely back it off even more. If that's still not got me relatively close to perfect, the next step I would look towards would be retraction settings.

RE: PETG first layer woes with satin sheet

Alright, I give up. I have no idea why some prints work and some just don't. I spend an hour carefully tweaking my live-z, and the next print won't stick at all, even while wearing gloves, washing the sheet with soap, and doing literally everything I can possibly think of to make it work.

Either I've seriously messed up my sheet, it was defective, to begin with, or I'm doing something catastrophically wrong that I can't diagnose. I'm having problems with PLA, too, and that just shouldn't happen. Not this bad. After the first layer, everything else is perfect (or close to it). No obvious print defects, minimal zits even. Wall thickness is dead on, it's just first-layer adhesion. Live Z is always too close and causes buildups and pickups or too far, and it just doesn't stick at all. The same settings on two back-to-back prints will give me different results (one will work, and one will fail). It's infuriating. I don't mind adjusting things, I'm just not getting any meaningful feedback from the system about what's wrong to know which direction to adjust towards.

Someone suggested getting a textured sheet to try, so I'll give that a shot. I also ordered some prusament PETG to rule out my filament being the problem, but considering I'm having a bad time with PLA too, I'm hoping that ditching the sheet is the long-term fix.

RE: PETG first layer woes with satin sheet

Have you tried using adhesive ?  (3Dlac, hairspray,  Laverneer or similar.. ). It saves a lot of time and hassle. Some people say that's cheating.. but who will know, apart yourself ? 😉  

RE: PETG first layer woes with satin sheet

If a cheat works for you, and hurts no one... I don't see a problem... 

finding ways that work, is a valid exercise...    

regards Joan

RE: PETG first layer woes with satin sheet

Hairspray really helps! I use Got2b Glued but about any firm hold hairspray should work. 

RE: PETG first layer woes with satin sheet

Thanks for the ideas. My textured sheet came in today but the package was crushed. I went back to my smooth sheet and PLA and I’m still seeing problems so maybe it’s not the sheet at all.

There are times when it puts out a real fine/thin wisp of filament that seems to cause issues. Here’s the first layer of some gridfinity bins in PLA an a smooth sheet.

PLA is forgiving enough that I let that print continue and it turned out great (minus the not stellar first layer). One thought is that it might be heat related and once the fan cuts on after the first layer it makes the problem go away.

RE: PETG first layer woes with satin sheet

Old thread, but I was having similar issue.

Brand new satin powder coat.

It turns out I was waaaay too high.  And once you are too high and dragging filament, you can’t recover during the test.  The filament starts to collect on the nozzle.

I took out a feeler gauge and dropped the head down to about .20mm (which ended up being about .2mm lower than my original PEI sticker sheet live a setting!)

Then once I was in the ballpark I could adjust during the calibration test.

Note even though I was waaaay too high, the initial purge stuck and the initial part of the calibration test stuck for about an inch.

RE: PETG first layer woes with satin sheet

I solved my problem by: Giving up. I switched to a textured sheet, and it's pretty amazing. When PETG doesn't stick, it will "drag" the filament over the surface. I think the little textured bumps give it more to "grab" onto.  My first layer with PETG on the textured sheet now lays down almost as reliably and consistently as PLA on the smooth sheet.

I was never able to do a live-z calibration with PETG on my satin sheet. I had to do it with PLA first and then adjust for PETG. On the textured I can run a live-z ruler print with PETG with no problems.

 Now I use textured for PETG and smooth for PLA. I still only handle them while using gloves, I like these which are easy to get on and off without accidentally touching the fingertips to my skin https://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-X-Large-ANSI-1-Cut-Level-Latex-Coated-Micro-Impact-Work-Glove-HK37131-XLCC9/312727009.

I stopped using iso alcohol (can leave a film if you do it wrong) and instead wash with dawn if there are issues (but with gloves and not switching filament types on the plates, there aren't really).

RE: PETG first layer woes with satin sheet

Lol I had the opposite problem.  I had trouble initially with the texture sheet.  and my zoffset was way too high.  I think also that a good scrub with kitchen sponge + dish soap really helped.   By the time I figured it out and was able to get stuff to stick, I got the satin sheet in and now that's my go-to for petg and tpu prints    Like you I still use PLA + smooth sheet.  I don't think I've printed on the textured sheets since I got the satin ones.  I do like the finish on the texture sheet though.  But the satin is close enough.   Since I'm only limited to 8 steel sheet profiles in the mk3s+   And each filament type + sheet type uses a profile I stick to just the smooth and satin.