My 1st print on the MK3S, I need some ideas/suggestions.
Hello, I just started my 1st prints with my Prusa MK3S, and altough I have some criticism towards assembly and design(I will make a separate thread about it) , I decided to start printing first.
I printed the Prusa logo from the SD card first with the silver PLA provided in the box because I don't have other filament yet.
Overall I am very happy with the dimensional quality, I did put a lot of effort while assembling the printer to make it as accurate as possible. I am even checked in the printer menu and the dimensional difference was very small (0.02 or something like that).
Unfortunately I am having some sort of misunderstanding/problem with setting my 1st part and I dont like how it comes out of the printer.
I made a simple key chain detail piece that has text on it.
My 1st problem is gettin the 1st layer flat enough to fill the Powder Coated texture sheet properly. I have to use pretty high Live Z value, something like -1.1mm/-1.2mm or even more. I did put a lot of effort while inserting and adjusting the PINDA probe, altough I wish Prusa had included a cheap set of Feeler gauges and proper detailed instructions with dimensions in the manual, on how to properly offset the extruder nozzle and PINDA probe from the sheet. A set of Chinese Feeler gauges would cost 1€ - 2€ or even less when bought in bulk, and would be good addition to the kit.
Example: https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?&SearchText=feeler+gauge
For me it is very difficult to visually see if the Live Z is propperly set durin the initial start up and calibration of the machine, because the line is so tiny.
I actually turned up printing the LiveZ calibration rectangle, then terminating/canceling the calibrating procedure, removing the printed rectangle from the sheet and measuring it with Vernier Calipers. I did multiple times but since I don't have any reference numbers in the manual I had to visually select the Live Z setting I wrote down on a piece of paper during these test runs, that gave best result.
With that being said, lets move to my other problem:
Parallel lines are not bridging together properly, I can see small gaps, also the internal layers are not bridging sometimes to the peripheral ones.
As if the nozzle needs to move a tad more in order to melt the edge so that the currently extruded line would weld properly to it.
What I tried:
Further lowering the Live Z. You can see on the picture of the Prusa logo, that in the middle the layer looks really well, but I had to use a lot of MINUS on the LiveZ, and I didnt want to do it again because I was afraid not to crash the nozzle into the bed.
Increasing the Bed temp from 60° up to 70°.
Increasing the extrusion from 100 up to 125.
I am using default settings in the Slicer, I haven't changed anything there except infill percentage. Only when I use 100% Infill, the programs gives me a Pop up and I "Consent" and accept the automatic recommended setting.
Here are some pics, hope you can clearly see the small gaps/holes.
Also, I am running the latest version of Prusa software on my PC, but my printer is running firmware from May. ( Themachine was ordered around one and half weeks ago).
Should I update the FW and do some test prints of the same Gcodes I just ran and compare the results?
Thank you everyone and this great Community!
https://ibb.co/KjWk1nh
https://ibb.co/MPmrgpY
https://ibb.co/0Djx0B9
https://ibb.co/h7GD9fg
https://ibb.co/JnG4sj3
https://ibb.co/qxHx7Cz
https://ibb.co/z6cCWzY
RE: My 1st print on the MK3S, I need some ideas/suggestions.
Can someone from the Prusa team please tell me these two dimensions in mm?
RE: My 1st print on the MK3S, I need some ideas/suggestions.
use the life-adjust-z-my-way procedure to set your live z
you want to end up with good test 1 layer prints that are solid and smooth
RE: My 1st print on the MK3S, I need some ideas/suggestions.
Your results look pretty good. I can see what you're concerned about on the underside of the Prusa logo print. If you have not already done so, try using Jeff Jordan's "Life Adjust" procedure for calibrating your Live-Z setting. It is much easier to use and understand than the on-board routine. It's much easier to make mid-print adjustments accurately with.
In general, start high (less negative) and work lower (more negative) in large increments (e.g. 0.1mm) until the filament starts to stick on its own. When you've got your Live-Z setting adjusted properly, you should be able to gently rub the extruded lines on the PEI surface without dislodging them. Then start lowering (more negative) the level until there are no gaps between layers.
As for the large Live-Z values you're having to enter, so long as the extrusion lines don't start rippling and distorting, or the nozzle dig into the surface, I wouldn't worry about going too low (more negative) as long as you do it in small increments. If you're having to use unusually high values, you may want to adjust your PINDA height.
I wouldn't expect any huge changes with firmware from May. There have been some incremental changes since then, but nothing earth shattering. The biggest recent fix was the implementation of 7x7 mesh bed leveling. I'm on 3.7.1 myself. The latest update doesn't offer anything I'm in a hurry to try, and there are complaints that it now beeps loudly on power-off.
and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan
RE: My 1st print on the MK3S, I need some ideas/suggestions.
OK guys thanx I will read the 2 links you provided me tomorrow because now its too late.
I have done multiple test parts and I have dialed the LiveZ for now at around -1.150.
Again, I have absolutely no sticking problems. Also my PLA parts are sticking very hard to the Textured PEI sheet, I have to use pliers to remove them. And in the meantime I read many of the folks are complaining that their PLA parts would not stick 🤣
Also measured the height of my parts, and they are just 0.1 mm of what they should be and I'm very happy about that.
I am baffled by the fact that no one has tried or described the use of a Feeler Gauges (as mentioned in my 1st post) to accurately and precisely set the proper value. Also neither Prusa, nor anyone else has given any dimensions (in my 2nd post) and that confuses me 🙄
What about the holes and gaps I am getting? I learned how the Prusa slicer interface works, and I can see that even in the slicer, there are gaps.
I used the color coding in the Slicer to determine which lines are which, and in the Advanced settings I increased all settings for Perimeter, Outside Perimeter and Infills from the default (0.42) to 0.55 and there was an improvement but it was minor. If the default extrusion setting in the Advanced Slicer setting is for example 0.45, how much am I allowed to increase it?
I feel that the lines on the inside of the perimeter should move further so that the filament can touch the Perimeter and fill this gap and blend into it. But I cannot find a setting in the Slicer that adjusts this!
RE: My 1st print on the MK3S, I need some ideas/suggestions.
Outside Perimeter and Infills from the default (0.42) to 0.55 and there was an improvement but it was minor. If the default extrusion setting in the Advanced Slicer setting is for example 0.45, how much am I allowed to increase it?
You should absolutely NOT change these parameters in Prusa slicer!
The printer profiles attached to the program are calibrated and work well for most filament materials.
If you start turning these parameters on, the risk is great that you will have problems with your prints.
There is only one method to correctly calibrate the printer, and it is to do a methodical and very accurate Z-level calibration.
The thickness of a good first layer is about 0.2 mm.
If you start turning on other unknown parameters, you just try to compensate for an incorrect Z-level.
So if you are going to enjoy your printer, do not use the printer profiles that you have changed.
I use the materials PLA, PETG, ABS and FLEX, and have never adjusted any advanced parameters.
What I sometimes adjust is the number of perimeters, number of solid layers, infill, support material, trim and sometimes print speed.
Bear MK3 with Bondtech extruder
RE: My 1st print on the MK3S, I need some ideas/suggestions.
As RHDreamBox, says, you shouldn't have to adjust these settings, however, if you need to adjust it, there is a setting in Slic3r and Prusa Slicer 2, that involves infill / perimeter overlap. I have never had to adjust it myself,
it is an expert setting
regards Joan
I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK
RE: My 1st print on the MK3S, I need some ideas/suggestions.
I am baffled by the fact that no one has tried or described the use of a Feeler Gauges (as mentioned in my 1st post) to accurately and precisely set the proper value. Also neither Prusa, nor anyone else has given any dimensions (in my 2nd post) and that confuses me 🙄
The answer is pretty simple. There is no "ideal value" which applies to all printers. Variable factors are the PINDA probe which has tolerances and the mount which is always slightly angled differently and your heat bed magnets and their placement tolerances.
With all this variables which are different for every printer, the determined actual height of the nozzle might be closer or further away from the bed. Live-Z adjustment is there to compensate that and this need to be done manually.
Often linked posts:
Going small with MMU2
Real Multi Material
My prints on Instagram
RE: My 1st print on the MK3S, I need some ideas/suggestions.
Why use a feeler gauge when auto mesh level ignores the actual setting and finds a new value, every print? It's PINDA height that matters, not nozzle height. While the PINDA is not precise, it is repeatable: one PINDA might need 1.8 mm, another 2.3 mm, so each needs it's own adjust level, or Live-Z value. I'm pretty sure there's a firmware bug that also negates any notion of not using auto-mesh level.
ps: Taking too long to post and then get bumped with the same idea... too funny. But coffee is too important. lol.