Much poorer prints with 0.6mm nozzle on Mk3S+ - why?
Hi everyone, I recently bought a genuine E3D 0.6mm steel nozzle to fit to my Mk3S+ to cut printing time, as I've had good results on another printer with it. The Prusa, however, somehow delivered pretty bad results as can be seen in the pics. The Z seams are okay as is, as this stems from the filament itself, but the wobblyness is quite severe. The prints were done with the stock 0.3mm Quality printing preset with the stock 0.6mm nozzle size printer preset, so absolutely no manual intervention here. After reverting back to another 0.4mm steel nozzle and printing a test Benchy, it came out flawlessly again. Between the prints, the nozzle size setting on the printer was changed, although it does not make any difference since the Gcode governs the print itself. So what happened with the 0.6mm nozzle?
Show us the 3MF and underside
Using 0.3mm layer heights is going to produce chunkier prints, but the Mk3 can produce fantastic results with a 0.6mm nozzle. My first question would be what the underside looks like. If that Benchy lifted, it might account for some of the mess. Otherwise, save your current 3MF project file, zip it up, and attach it to a reply here so we can see your part & settings and give better recommendations.
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He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan
RE: Much poorer prints with 0.6mm nozzle on Mk3S+ - why?
Chunkier is a great assessment.
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Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog
RE: Much poorer prints with 0.6mm nozzle on Mk3S+ - why?
@bobstro: Sure, the prints will not be as detailed or smooth as with a smaller nozzle size and layer height, but the wobbliness is nowhere near the surface quality it should have nor is it "chunky", just bad. I've done a few prints with the same filament, 0.32mm layer height, 0.8mm line width with a 0.6mm nozzle on my second printer (Anycubic Mega X) and the quality was much better. I'm simply surprised to see this inferior surface finish with the Prusa and stock settings, since the stock settings for the 0.4mm nozzle produced much better looking parts. I'll post some pictures of its underside and the 3mf file later today.
RE:
@bobstro: Sure, the prints will not be as detailed or smooth as with a smaller nozzle size and layer height, but the wobbliness is nowhere near the surface quality it should have nor is it "chunky", just bad.
I don't disagree. Bed adhesion is definitely something to verify. It is interesting that cube does not exhibit the wobbly appearance at the same heights, so at least that rules out assembly issues. Next thing I'd do is reduce speeds by 50% or more and compare. If appearance improves, you've got your answer and can adjust slicer settings accordingly. If not, look for other issues.
I do a LOT of printing with 0.6mm nozzles, and you can definitely get better results!
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He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan
RE: Much poorer prints with 0.6mm nozzle on Mk3S+ - why?
I'll definitely try slower printing and report back. I did not get the chance to make some pictures or get near my personal PC to upload the 3MF/Gcode file, I'll do it this weekend.
RE: Much poorer prints with 0.6mm nozzle on Mk3S+ - why?
Hello again, here's the Gcode file and a picture of the first layers.
3DBenchy_0.6n_0.3mm_PLA_MK3S_50m.gcode
RE: Much poorer prints with 0.6mm nozzle on Mk3S+ - why?
Hello again, here's the Gcode file and a picture of the first layers.
Try saving a 3MF project file, zipping it (important), and attaching that. With the project file, we can see all of your settings.
That said:
- Your 1st layer looks good.
- Your speeds look reasonable.
Looking at your Benchy print, the defects look like they may be flow-related. I'd try temporarily removing the Linear Advance setting in your filament profile (just delete the M900 Kxx lines and slice, but don't save it) and compare.
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He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan
RE:
Hi, as mentioned the file is simply a Benchy with the standard slicer settings for 0.6mm nozzle and 0.3mm quality profile. I've attached the RAR. Disabling the linear advance for a test print might be a good idea, but in the meantime I reinstalled a 0.4mm steel nozzle so troubleshooting will have to wait a bit.
Edit: I see that neither RAR nor 3MF files are allowed for uploads. Again, it's the standard settings with no alterations whatsoever, so anyone can recreate it.
RE: Much poorer prints with 0.6mm nozzle on Mk3S+ - why?
Hi all!
Good that I stumbled up on this topic since I seem to have the same issue. I also switched from a 0.4mm (brass) nozzle to a 0.6mm nozzle X. I also have these weird wobbly lines very similar to your print.
I played with temperature and flow a lot and got the XYZ calibration block pretty good. So I printed another Benchy but the wobbliness was still there... Mid print I turned the speed down to 50% and the wobbliness went away, but there is still a weird line visible (see 2nd picture)
Reducing the speeds seems to help, but my speed settings were nothing crazy (standard 0.30mm Quality settings from Prusa):
- perimeters: 45 mm/s
- External perimeters: 35 mm/s
- Adhesion was good
- K-Value 0.04
There must be a way to get good prints at these speeds, did you figure it out eventually?
RE: Much poorer prints with 0.6mm nozzle on Mk3S+ - why?
Hi, good to see that I'm not the only one with this issue. I haven't found out why this occurred. In the meantime, I switched to the Bondtech CHT nozzle with 0.6mm diameter, and even at high printing speeds this problem did not resurface, but I only did some larger prints like a 125% Benchy. Still, I don't think the nozzle was at fault, but maybe the rapid directional changes and extruder movements in these corners.
RE: Much poorer prints with 0.6mm nozzle on Mk3S+ - why?
Hi! Thanks for your answer. I also think that the rapid directional changes and extruder movements in these corners are the issue. I printed another print with the same settings and it came out really good.
RE: Much poorer prints with 0.6mm nozzle on Mk3S+ - why?
The only time I have had these defects on my prusa it was caused by the hotend not being attached firmly enough. If you try to wobble the nozzle when its cold, does it move? If so, it will move during the print. For me, one of the nuts to one of the bolts holding the hotend had come off and the other screw had gotten a bit loose. After fixing this, the nozzle was again stiff and the problem was solved.
Another thing when switching nozzles/hotend is to re-calibrate linear advance (if you get ugly seams and corners for instance). If you use the same hotend and normal 0.6 mm brass nozzle the prusa profile takes care of this. But if you switch to say a high flow steel nozzle you might want to look into it.
RE: Much poorer prints with 0.6mm nozzle on Mk3S+ - why?
Hi John, that was indeed the case. The whole X carriage was wobbling about since all three screws worked themselves loose and a part of the back plate was cracked. It blocked the leftmost 10mm or so of the X axis, which also caused the PINDA probe to have difficulties in finding the measuring magnets. No idea how it happened, maybe it was material fatigue. Anyway, I tightened the screws and removed the intrusive part, but I have not yet retried a 100% size Benchy again. The other parts I printed did not seem to have any defects as seen before, but I'll investigate that some time soon.