[Resuelto] Smooth PEI sheet adhension after cleaning with acetone  

RE: Smooth PEI sheet adhension after cleaning with acetone

Acetone is a great idea for killing the sheets dead (and yes I´ve seen recommendations several years old to use acetone once in a while, which I believe are not supported anymore...).

Take a dish sponge, non-regreasing dish soap, hot water and SCRUB the dirt of the sheet. Non-regreasing means no additives like "hand-friendly", "gentle skin" or other stuff, just plain dish soap. Then dry the sheet with kitchen paper (again without any stupid ingredients, just plain kitchen paper)by rubbing it vigorously.

Then your prints should work without adhesives (to the extent the respective material generally works with the respective sheet without adhesives).

Print and enjoy.

RE: Smooth PEI sheet adhension after cleaning with acetone

Hairspray! Got2beGlued, get it anywhere. Works like a champ.

RE: Smooth PEI sheet adhension after cleaning with acetone

Although I agree with @JustMe3D that acetone is not necessarily a smart idea, are you sure you used an acetone based nail polish remover? Nowadays a lot of them are using ethyl-acetate as solvent.

Which should be removing PLA residue but IIRC PETG, ASB and ASA are resistant to it.

RE:

I would be concerned that the commercial nail polish remover, even if it is acetone-based, has ingredients other than the basic solvent(s), such as baby oil, lanolin, fragrances, etc.

Some of the acetone substitutes (various alkyl acetates, etc.) may indeed be good solvents but things such as lanolin, baby oil (mineral oil, castor oil, various other oils) are greasy and oily and will tend to discourage adhesion.

In the States, acetone by itself can be obtained at most hardware stores and paint stores. Some larger drug stores will carry clinical grade acetone as well.

I can assure you that the occasional wipe-off of the smooth PEI plate with straight acetone will not damage it, and will at least somewhat improve the ability of filament to stick to it.  Just don't make a habit out of doing it daily or anything.  Use in moderation.

TFM says not to use acetone on the textured build plate, but there have been occasional reports here that it has been done (in moderation) without the world coming to a screeching halt.  I would be very leery of using acetone on the satin build plate.

RE: Smooth PEI sheet adhension after cleaning with acetone

The jury is still out on this one but there's an argument that suggests the chemical cleaning simply moves contaminants around. I guess you can mitigate this by wiping in known directions (perhaps left to right and front to back)

RE:

We are going to have to agree to disagree as to what method is truly better, water-based solvents, or organic solvents.

I say that what really matters is that the build plate is truly clean of contamination, far more than what's used to clean it.

Some insist, often very defensively, that "clean your plate and clean it my way" is the universal fix for every issue of getting prints to stick.  It's almost a religion!

I say that what works better for me, might not be what works better for you, and if you have good results doing it your way, all the better.

I have rarely use dish detergent on my build plates.  Why?  I don't have a sink convenient to where the printers are located.  I use alcohol, and lately, what's called denatured alcohol, as isopropyl was difficult to get during the height of the pandemic, so I have it on hand.

I have very few failed prints.  I must be doing something right.  That works for me.  It may or may not work for anyone else.

(Yes, I know, 'But my way is better because ...')  😉

RE: Smooth PEI sheet adhension after cleaning with acetone

Posted by: @jsw

Some insist, often very defensively, that "clean your plate and clean it my way" is the universal fix for every issue of getting prints to stick.  It's almost a religion!

 

One may need DAWN to see the light <rofl>

RE: Smooth PEI sheet adhension after cleaning with acetone

Thanks for the info folks.

I do think the nail polish contains cosmetics that smooths the plates, so it's actually reducing the adhesion. 

I gone through the manual again so finally what I did was using a 1000 grit sand paper and sanded the surface with water. The plates were revived 🙂

RE: Smooth PEI sheet adhension after cleaning with acetone

I agree with jsw, but not to disagree. If it works for you, fine, if it does not, find the problem. The problem frequently is, that people say, they use acetone and after a few posts, they find out, that aceton is not the same as nail polish remover. Same with IPA from the drug store. If you want IPA buy IPA, you get 99,9 pure IPA on the internet, same goes for acetone. If you buy soap, buy one that is supposed to remove grease, not make your skin feel better… 

After all you need to get the plate clean, how you achieve that is up to you…

Last but not least, as jsw, I never used soap and water, only IPA and rarely acetone and have very few failed printer as well…

RE: Smooth PEI sheet adhension after cleaning with acetone

Toothpaste works really well to remove old glue stick residue. Dab of paste, splash of water, rub it in, rinse it thoroughly. A drop off regular dawn will take care of any residue if your brand leaves any.

For hard to stick prints, I use Vision Miner Nano Adhesive. For prints that stick too hard I use glue stick, or painters tape.

I switched to the textured pei sheets, and definitely prefer them to the smooth.

RE:

Posted by: @justme3d

Acetone is a great idea for killing the sheets dead (and yes I´ve seen recommendations several years old to use acetone once in a while, which I believe are not supported anymore...).

Take a dish sponge, non-regreasing dish soap, hot water and SCRUB the dirt of the sheet. Non-regreasing means no additives like "hand-friendly", "gentle skin" or other stuff, just plain dish soap. Then dry the sheet with kitchen paper (again without any stupid ingredients, just plain kitchen paper)by rubbing it vigorously.

Then your prints should work without adhesives (to the extent the respective material generally works with the respective sheet without adhesives).

Print and enjoy.

 

This is the standard advice but with older PEI sheet, a certain loss of adhesion even with well washed plates isn't mere myth but a real possibility. No amount of dish soap washing will restore that. The current consensus in that case seems to be to roughen the PEI sheet up just as much as needed (and not more), with the green side of sponge for example. Acetone can do something similar. In both cases these are aggressive methods and might damage the plate. 

The one alternative to all of that is to use adhesives. I think Kores is not very convenient to use and also helps only to a point. I personally use dimafix sticks, easy to apply, easy to wash off by simply rinsing it shortly with water. Magigoo is also a good option but there are various other adhesives. I am using those with a plate which showed exactly the same deterioration after around 2 years of use, never had any adhesion problem with it ever since and so I am not even using the replacement sheet I purchased (and which had great adhesion again, even without adhisve). Plus with adhesive one does not have to be paranoid about cleanliness of the plate either and can skip the IPA wiping altogether. And in most cases with adhesive, you do not need to use brims even with challenging models either. That robustness of the process, peace of mind and getting rid of brims was what made me change sides on this issue.

RE: Smooth PEI sheet adhension after cleaning with acetone

The Party Line has always been to use acetone only occasionally and sparingly to clean and 'refresh' the smooth PEI build plate, only when needed.

The Party Line is also to NEVER use acetone on the Prusa textured build plate under any circumstances.

Over the years, I've indeed found that an occasional cleaning with acetone will indeed restore some of the sticking ability to a well-used smooth PEI build plate.  I've never observed any decrease in sticking ability from doing so.