Filament do not stick to the metal sheet

Daniel

(@daniel-21)

New Member

Filament do not stick to the metal sheet

Recently, during the the first two or three minutes of printing (while printing the base), the filament is sticking to the head and then moving from it's place. It do not stick to the metal sheet

I tried to clean the head and the nozzle with a needle for several times, I also performed the recommended prevented maintenance.

I performed full calibration and put the glue provided with the printer on the metal sheet but the filament still do not stick to the metal sheet.

How can i fix it

Posted : 15/03/2020 3:52 pm

karl-herbert

(@karl-herbert)

Illustrious Member

RE: Filament do not stick to the metal sheet

Posted by: @mk22

Recently, during the the first two or three minutes of printing (while printing the base), the filament is sticking to the head and then moving from it's place. It do not stick to the metal sheet

I tried to clean the head and the nozzle with a needle for several times, I also performed the recommended prevented maintenance.

I performed full calibration and put the glue provided with the printer on the metal sheet but the filament still do not stick to the metal sheet.

How can i fix it

The topic was often discussed in the forum. The most important thing for good adhesion is a flat printbed, an exact first layer calibration and a clean, fat-free printing plate. I would use the foiled PEI printing plate to print PLA. To clean the printing plate use dishsoap, water and possibly isopropanol.
Print temperatures and a clean hotend are equally important.

Statt zu klagen, dass wir nicht alles haben, was wir wollen, sollten wir lieber dankbar sein, dass wir nicht alles bekommen, was wir verdienen.

Posted : 15/03/2020 4:28 pm

rmm200

(@rmm200)

Noble Member

RE: Filament do not stick to the metal sheet

Be careful with that needle. It is easier to damage the nozzle with it than fix anything (steel vs brass).

Use cold pulls and cleaning filament to clean inside the nozzle. Brass brush on the exterior.

Your problem is plate adhesion and Z.

Both have to be correct.

Posted : 15/03/2020 4:35 pm

bobstro

(@bobstro)

Illustrious Member

RE: Filament do not stick to the metal sheet

Apologies to those who've seen this before, but I've tried to capture everything in this text...

Your underlying issue is bed adhesion. This is a common problem that can be caused or aggravated by two factors that need to work together well for successful prints. Here's mama's tried and true copypasta recipe to get you going...

You are having bed adhesion issues. Filament should lay down cleanly on the PEI print surface and hold throughout the print. There are 2 main causes of bed adhesion issues. Even if you're dubious that these are the cause of your problems, they're 2 fundamental troubleshooting steps that you need to complete to rule out the basics:

A dirty PEI print surface. Even if you don't think this is the cause, it's always a good idea to make sure your PEI surface is clean before trying any other fixes. If it's a smooth PEI sheet, take it to the kitchen sink and give it a good dunk with Dawn (original formula, no vinegar or hand softener variants) dishwashing soap or your local equivalent (e.g. Fairy in UK). Use a clean paper towel to clean it off, and another to dry it. Avoid using any sponge or cloth that has been in contact with grease. Above all else, avoid touching the PEI print surface. Once it's good and clean, you should be able to use 91%+ isopropyl alcohol between prints, 100% acetone when that fails , and another dunk when acetone fails. Worst-case, use a 3M 7445 ScotchBrite pad or equivalent on smooth PEI to give it a very light buff, but only infrequently. If you've got a textured powder-coated PEI print surface, the official instructions are to use 91%+ isopropyl alcohol on it only. Rumors persist that some tribes deep in the jungle have had good luck getting started with these sheets by giving them a wipe with 100% acetone and a dunk with Dawn. Either way, there's no real warranty on these sheets. YMMV.
If you have not already done so, try using Jeff Jordan's "Life Adjust" procedure for calibrating your Live-Z setting. It is much easier to use and understand than the on-board routine. It's much easier to make mid-print adjustments accurately with. In general, start high (less negative) and work lower (more negative) in large increments (e.g. 0.1mm) until the filament starts to stick on its own. When you've got your Live-Z setting adjusted properly, you should be able to gently rub the extruded lines on the PEI surface without dislodging them. Then start lowering (more negative) the level until there are no gaps between layers.

Remember that the effectiveness of a solvent such as isopropyl alcohol is going to depend on concentration and volume relative to the amount of grease you're trying to remove. 71% pads work... on very tiny amounts of grease. A squirt of 91% works better, but if there's a lot of grease, you need a lot more alcohol. This is why the wash under the sink with Dawn is so effective: There's a much larger volume of Dawn-and-water rinsisng stuff away instead of just moving the broken-down grease molecules around.

And above all else, avoid touching the PEI print surface.

Glue stick is NOT necessary for PLA on the PEI print surface. You paid the big bucks for a Prusa with a removable spring still sheet with PEI, so clean it up and take advantage of it. Save the glue stick for printing sticky stuff like PETG that might adhere too well. Even then, I only find I need glue stick when printing high-temp PETG at 260C+ temps.

Try those 2 steps. If you're uncertain of the Live-Z results, post pics here of the 75x75 print bottom and you'll get quick help. If you want more detail, I've consolidated my notes on Prusa PEI adhesion, bed cleaning, and Live-Z calibration.

A bit of trivia - The reason higher concentrations of alcohol seem to be harder to find is that isopropyl alcohol is most effective against bacteria at roughly a 71% concentration. A bit of distilled water helps break down the bacterial cell walls. If you're looking in pharmacies, that's why 91% and higher seem to be hard to find.

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing

and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan

Posted : 15/03/2020 6:19 pm

Daniel

(@daniel-21)

New Member

Topic starter answered:

RE: Filament do not stick to the metal sheet

@robert-rmm200

Hi, thanks for your reply, how I do I clean inside the nozzle? could you provide a video link ?

Posted : 15/03/2020 6:20 pm

karl-herbert

(@karl-herbert)

Illustrious Member

RE: Filament do not stick to the metal sheet

interesting information about a variety of high performance thermoplastics:

http://www.tacticalsealing.com/uploads/High_Performance_Plastics_Material_Guide.pdf

Why not use acetone to clean ULTEM:

Moderate attack of appreciable absorption.Material will have limited life.

Therefore use very little or better not at all.

Statt zu klagen, dass wir nicht alles haben, was wir wollen, sollten wir lieber dankbar sein, dass wir nicht alles bekommen, was wir verdienen.

Posted : 15/03/2020 7:02 pm

bobstro

(@bobstro)

Illustrious Member

RE: Filament do not stick to the metal sheet

Posted by: @karl-herbert

[...]

Moderate attack of appreciable absorption.Material will have limited life.

Therefore use very little or better not at all.

The original guidance for the smooth sheets was to use it infrequently and only as needed. Acetone is unique among the cleaning alternatives -- or so I understand -- in that it will remove oxidation, so is good for refreshing the surface. A few passes with a mildly abrasive pad may be just as effective, but I'm always worried someone will use a highly abrasive pad and screw up their surface.

I consider 3D printing more akin to cooking than mechanical assembly. There's definitely a "touch" and some muscle memory required to get things right. Like everybody else, I've wrestled with the proper application of isopropyl alcohol and the "feel" of PEI when clean. After a wash with dish soap, the bed definitely drags on a paper towel when wiping it clean. If I don't feel that drag, I know it needs more work.

Something I'm experimenting with lately is skipping the alcohol for routine cleaning and just using a thickly folded paper towel (I use the blue shop towels) to buff the sheet until I feel that drag on a clean sheet. It seems to be as effective as a splash with 99% isopropyl most of the time. I think the buffing action is better at removing build-up. This won't help much with a badly fouled sheet, but it working well for me when tidying up.

My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing

and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan

Posted : 15/03/2020 7:10 pm

Daniel

(@daniel-21)

New Member

Topic starter answered:

RE: Filament do not stick to the metal sheet

Posted by: @mk22

Recently, during the the first two or three minutes of printing (while printing the base), the filament is sticking to the head and then moving from it's place. It do not stick to the metal sheet

I tried to clean the head and the nozzle with a needle for several times, I also performed the recommended prevented maintenance.

I performed full calibration and put the glue provided with the printer on the metal sheet but the filament still do not stick to the metal sheet.

How can i fix it

Update: 16/3/2020

I have cleaned the metal sheet with dishes soap and after that with isopropyl alcohol 99% than performed first layer calibration.

Now the situation is much better, I can print big parts but when trying to print a smaller ones I still got misses between the layers.

Any suggestion on how to proceed ?

This post was modified 4 years ago by Daniel

Posted : 16/03/2020 9:25 am