[Testers Needed] Inconsistent Extrusion  

Re: [Testers Needed] Inconsistent Extrusion

since klipper works differently then the prusa firmware and still has the Inconsistent Extrusion issue it may be both a hardware and software issue. has anyone tried the Skelestruder V1 to get rid of the Inconsistent Extrusion issue? Has anyone tried a titan areo?

If its firmware my concerns is whether PR can fix it with so little space left in the flash memory currently 97% of the flash is used and this is with only 2 languages

Re: [Testers Needed] Inconsistent Extrusion

I have read that this is a problem that evolves -- not occuring in a brand new printer. Is this so?

Is is possible that the strong bed magnets moving back and forth above the Y axis motor are degaussing the motor magnets or otherwise degrading the performance of the motor causing inconsistent behavior?

Re: [Testers Needed] Inconsistent Extrusion

I have read that this is a problem that evolves -- not occuring in a brand new printer. Is this so?
After reading the various posts, I realized I had the issue on a then-new Prusa i3 Mk3 out-of-the-box. From reading the various posts, I'm understanding that the Mk2s also has the same issue. Or perhaps not.

I'm increasingly convinced this is the 3D printing equivalent of tinitus. Many suffer from it, but until you become consciously aware of it, it's not an issue. Only after noticing it is it impossible to unsee. I was thrilled with my prints, and am still astounded at the quality I'm getting out of prints compared to posts from long-time 3D printer users of other devices. However, if I hold a light just right using just the right filament, I see this issue. I know my prints are good, but I also know they are flawed, even if in a way that only this community would notice. I hope Prusa is able to remedy it, but even if not, the quality of prints I'm getting far exceeds my expectations.

Re: [Testers Needed] Inconsistent Extrusion

I hope Prusa is able to remedy it, but even if not, the quality of prints I'm getting far exceeds my expectations.
I wouldn't put too much hope on it but 3DMN mentioned in his live Q&A from Prague that he spoke with Josef and they think they might have found the issue and he will make a video on it soon ( - around 2:35 mark )

Re: [Testers Needed] Inconsistent Extrusion

Ok here's mine, looking forward to someone pointing out a problem, because I don't see it!

Re: [Testers Needed] Inconsistent Extrusion

Ok here's mine, looking forward to someone pointing out a problem, because I don't see it!

Careful what you ask for, because once you see it, you can't unsee it. Take that print and shine a light on it from above. You'll likely see some inconsistencies in the extrusion across each layer. It's a problem that requires specific (shiny) filament with specific (from above) lighting to spot, but it's most likely there. It's not really a "problem" as your print quality is still likely better than with any other printer... but it's something to obsess over. I can understand why people obsess with it -- we want the best quality possible -- but I would call it more of an aspirational goal than a problem fix.

Now whatever you do, don't go read up on The Hum.

Re: [Testers Needed] Inconsistent Extrusion

I can understand why people obsess with it -- we want the best quality possible -- but I would call it more of an aspirational goal than a problem fix.

Now whatever you do, don't go read up on The Hum.

I agree about wanting the best quality possible. However in the case of this device (that I've owned for a whopping whole week), I would tend to want it to be (much) faster, while maintaining existing quality. I mean granted this is my first 3D printer ever, but comeon these things are slower than a turtle on a glacier made of molasses.

As for the hum, that's funny, because when I moved right beside a 100ft cel tower, I immediately developed tinnitus, in my case otherwise known as 'microwave auditory effect'. I hope that the observed inconsistent extrusion issue won't prove to be as insidious!

Re: [Testers Needed] Inconsistent Extrusion

Take that print and shine a light on it from above. You'll likely see some inconsistencies in the extrusion across each layer. It's a problem that requires specific (shiny) filament with specific (from above) lighting to spot, but it's most likely there. It's not really a "problem" as your print quality is still likely better than with any other printer...

The problem with this problem is that the examples that most people have provided are as inconsistent as the issue they are trying to show. You only have to read back through the comments here and elsewhere to see that.

If I shine a light on some of my mk2s prints at a certain angle, slant my head a particular way, hold my breath ... I can see an "inconsistency" too. But I think it is inherent in the process. Perhaps some printers have had this made a little worse by some out of spec components or perhaps there is a little bug in the firmware popping up from time to time under certain circumstances. Either way it is very difficult to find the culprit, as has been demonstrated.

Re: [Testers Needed] Inconsistent Extrusion

[...] The problem with this problem is that the examples that most people have provided are as inconsistent as the issue they are trying to show. You only have to read back through the comments here and elsewhere to see that.There's been a definite dogpiling effect, where anybody with any concern or complaint about print quality has jumped on the "me too" bandwagon. I was really disappointed to see a rising YouTuber who I'd been enjoying put out a misleading clickbaity video on the issue.

What I'm no longer certain of is whether this is truly a problem limited to the new Mk3, or something that's been present in older Prusa (and possibly other brand) products and only recently noticed. I saw some side-by-side of prints off Mk2S and Mk3 printers that made it look new, but I'm reading that Mk2S owners are realizing they have the same issue -- only after printing with just the right filament held in just the right lighting.

If I shine a light on some of my mk2s prints at a certain angle, slant my head a particular way, hold my breath ... I can see an "inconsistency" too. But I think it is inherent in the process. Perhaps some printers have had this made a little worse by some out of spec components or perhaps there is a little bug in the firmware popping up from time to time under certain circumstances. Either way it is very difficult to find the culprit, as has been demonstrated.The fact that JP & Co. are looking at it has me satisfied. I am truly glad I didn't fall for the "don't buy this printer until this is fixed!" hype back in March. Even with this issue, I'm getting prints as a newbie that are better than a lot of those I see posted elsewhere by longtime users of other printers. If it can be fixed, that will be awesome. Even if fixed, any 3D print is still going to show layer lines, and those are just as likely to be noticed by non-3D printing observers.

Re: [Testers Needed] Inconsistent Extrusion

[...] As for the hum, that's funny, because when I moved right beside a 100ft cel tower, I immediately developed tinnitus, in my case otherwise known as 'microwave auditory effect'. I hope that the observed inconsistent extrusion issue won't prove to be as insidious!I never knew I had tinitus until I read about people being driven to insanity and suicide from tinitus and realized I have the same problem. I've gone 50+ years with it and been fine, but now it bugs me.

Re: [Testers Needed] Inconsistent Extrusion

I had a theory that the inconsistent extrusion was caused by runout in the Bondtech extruder gears. So I created a square model about 78mm on a side, and tweaked the layer thickness until it would use exactly one revolution of the Extruder motor per pass around the perimeter. I printed it in vase mode. Then I created another model of a 10mm cube, and also printed it in vase mode. I could not see a difference in the patterns between the two prints. There is a tiny bit of inconsistency, but not very much!

However, as I was investigating the issue, I happened to open up the extruder and discovered that the grub screw attaching the driven Bondtech gear to the motor shaft was loose! I had seen significantly more inconsistent extrusion before this discovery.

So, while I don't deny the possibility of the firmware causing a minor problem, I am convinced that a loose grub screw can be a much bigger contributor.

And I know that when I assembled the printer, I had the grub screw tight. So I am afraid that the temperature fluctuations of the extruder motor may contribute to a loosening of the grub screw. I have ordered heat sinks and thermal adhesive tape to try to remedy the problem.

Re: [Testers Needed] Inconsistent Extrusion

Here is a side by side comparison MK3 vs Stock CR-10 both printed at .1mm picture taken with light from above to see the extrusion what do you think?

Re: [Testers Needed] Inconsistent Extrusion

wow I just saw this Brigandier
Before anyone else gets confused (Kwaad apparently already DM'd vertigo haha), I removed my own admin access. I am selling my MK3, probably not going to be dumping code into the projects (as I won't have an MK3), and just don't have the time / desire to be an effective admin. I will still be here as a fellow 3d printing bro though. No behind the scenes bullshit or anything, just me realizing this printer adds more stress to my life than I want right now lol.

Re: [Testers Needed] Inconsistent Extrusion

However, as I was investigating the issue, I happened to open up the extruder and discovered that the grub screw attaching the driven Bondtech gear to the motor shaft was loose! I had seen significantly more inconsistent extrusion before this discovery.

So, while I don't deny the possibility of the firmware causing a minor problem, I am convinced that a loose grub screw can be a much bigger contributor.

Now this sounds very plausible.

I guess the obvious question is, have you printed since you re-tightened it? And?

Re: [Testers Needed] Inconsistent Extrusion

However, as I was investigating the issue, I happened to open up the extruder and discovered that the grub screw attaching the driven Bondtech gear to the motor shaft was loose! I had seen significantly more inconsistent extrusion before this discovery.

So, while I don't deny the possibility of the firmware causing a minor problem, I am convinced that a loose grub screw can be a much bigger contributor.

Now this sounds very plausible.

I guess the obvious question is, have you printed since you re-tightened it? And?

Yes, both of the above pictures are with the grub screw tightened.
Here is a picture with a piece (a replacement part) printed when the grub screw was probably a bit loose. The comparison is not apples to apples because the piece on the right is not a single-wall vase mode print. Note that the lighting angle is purposely chosen to make the surface imperfections as prominent as possible. Most of my use for the printer involves mechanical parts, not works of art, so I'm actually extremely happy with my MK3.

Re: [Testers Needed] Inconsistent Extrusion

Just bringing this back from the dead a bit.

Did you guys see the Thomas Sanladerer video walkthru of the Prusa Factory?

At 13:44 in the video Josef shows the inconsistent extrusion test printer they have and says its where they found the issue to be the Bondtech gears.

Food for thought...or not.

Carry on.

Re: [Testers Needed] Inconsistent Extrusion

Food for thought...or not.
Carry on.

This horse is already so beaten up and dead.... I think everything was already told. Just go through all the threads and you will have enough to read for next couple weeks.

Re: [Testers Needed] Inconsistent Extrusion

Just wondering if this is still an issue or if it seems to have been decisively addressed by Prusa? Before the recent bump, the last post was from July. I'm just wondering if new orders are still affected by the issue or if Prusa has figured it out and taken steps to prevent it in new printers.

Re: [Testers Needed] Inconsistent Extrusion

Just wondering if this is still an issue or if it seems to have been decisively addressed by Prusa? Before the recent bump, the last post was from July. I'm just wondering if new orders are still affected by the issue or if Prusa has figured it out and taken steps to prevent it in new printers.

This is the official statement from PR: https://www.prusaprinters.org/prusa-research-summer-update-2018/

Re: [Testers Needed] Inconsistent Extrusion

This is the official statement from PR: https://www.prusaprinters.org/prusa-research-summer-update-2018/

This is why I mentioned it and because it was directly applicable to the last post before mine from @RetireeJay.

That post from Josef was back in July and it said they were still researching the toothed drive gears and would update later.

This seemed like an off the cuff confirmation of the issue, right from Josef.

No need to lose sleep over it.