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[Testers Needed] Inconsistent Extrusion  

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jonathon.b
(@jonathon-b)
Estimable Member
Re: [Testers Needed] Inconsistent Extrusion

It has been a bit quiet, and theres is still is no improvement on the issue and its still there as bad as it always has been.

I think a lot of focus and blame on the fault on the slic3r cooling problem not slowing down outer perimeters but that is a totally different problem.

The new RC2 and Slic3r have had no effect on much 🙁

Postato : 30/04/2018 1:47 pm
outbaxx
(@outbaxx)
New Member
Re: [Testers Needed] Inconsistent Extrusion

I made this post in another subforum, when printing 2 perimeters only i get a print surface that is close to perfect, without the magnifying that come with the picture its very hard to see the imperfections imo:
https://shop.prusa3d.com/forum/how-do-i-print-this-printing-help--f63/poor-print-quality-t12438-s230.html#p82149

Postato : 30/04/2018 2:09 pm
andrei.j
(@andrei-j)
Active Member
Re: [Testers Needed] Inconsistent Extrusion


It has been a bit quiet, and theres is still is no improvement on the issue and its still there as bad as it always has been.

I think a lot of focus and blame on the fault on the slic3r cooling problem not slowing down outer perimeters but that is a totally different problem.

The new RC2 and Slic3r have had no effect on much 🙁

Well on the FB groups I have seen pictures with verry nice improvements. Guessing the low number of complaints here must mean it's fixed/improved for most ppl.

Postato : 30/04/2018 2:19 pm
reid.b
(@reid-b)
Reputable Member
Re: [Testers Needed] Inconsistent Extrusion

No improvements in the main issue reported here... light casting at the proper angle shows terrible extrusion consistency.

Postato : 30/04/2018 4:09 pm
jonathon.b
(@jonathon-b)
Estimable Member
Re: [Testers Needed] Inconsistent Extrusion



It has been a bit quiet, and theres is still is no improvement on the issue and its still there as bad as it always has been.

I think a lot of focus and blame on the fault on the slic3r cooling problem not slowing down outer perimeters but that is a totally different problem.

The new RC2 and Slic3r have had no effect on much 🙁

Well on the FB groups I have seen pictures with verry nice improvements. Guessing the low number of complaints here must mean it's fixed/improved for most ppl.

Really what group? I’m always looking and can still see the problem on ‘most’ things.

I’d be interested in seeing some more pictures for sure

Postato : 30/04/2018 9:14 pm
jonathon.b
(@jonathon-b)
Estimable Member
Re: [Testers Needed] Inconsistent Extrusion


I made this post in another subforum, when printing 2 perimeters only i get a print surface that is close to perfect, without the magnifying that come with the picture its very hard to see the imperfections imo:
https://shop.prusa3d.com/forum/how-do-i-print-this-printing-help--f63/poor-print-quality-t12438-s230.html#p82149

Hi,

Did I miss that good picture somewhere? I could only see pictures with the same problem on?

Postato : 30/04/2018 9:16 pm
michael.a35
(@michael-a35)
Trusted Member
Re: [Testers Needed] Inconsistent Extrusion




It has been a bit quiet, and theres is still is no improvement on the issue and its still there as bad as it always has been.

I think a lot of focus and blame on the fault on the slic3r cooling problem not slowing down outer perimeters but that is a totally different problem.

The new RC2 and Slic3r have had no effect on much 🙁

Well on the FB groups I have seen pictures with verry nice improvements. Guessing the low number of complaints here must mean it's fixed/improved for most ppl.

Really what group? I’m always looking and can still see the problem on ‘most’ things.

I’d be interested in seeing some more pictures for sure

Most people are here: https://github.com/prusa3d/Prusa-Firmware/issues/602

That said, beware of the negative people. The truth is that things are getting much better. Its fixing one thing at a time, so people are mad that it isn't a magic fix all at once, but Prusa will get there eventually. This kind of thing just takes time.

Postato : 01/05/2018 3:16 am
jonathon.b
(@jonathon-b)
Estimable Member
Re: [Testers Needed] Inconsistent Extrusion



Well on the FB groups I have seen pictures with verry nice improvements. Guessing the low number of complaints here must mean it's fixed/improved for most ppl.

Really what group? I’m always looking and can still see the problem on ‘most’ things.

I’d be interested in seeing some more pictures for sure

Most people are here: https://github.com/prusa3d/Prusa-Firmware/issues/602

That said, beware of the negative people. The truth is that things are getting much better. Its fixing one thing at a time, so people are mad that it isn't a magic fix all at once, but Prusa will get there eventually. This kind of thing just takes time.

This is still what’s happening in the most current setups unfortunately 🙁

Postato : 01/05/2018 7:40 am
michael.a35
(@michael-a35)
Trusted Member
Re: [Testers Needed] Inconsistent Extrusion



Really what group? I’m always looking and can still see the problem on ‘most’ things.

I’d be interested in seeing some more pictures for sure

Most people are here: https://github.com/prusa3d/Prusa-Firmware/issues/602

That said, beware of the negative people. The truth is that things are getting much better. Its fixing one thing at a time, so people are mad that it isn't a magic fix all at once, but Prusa will get there eventually. This kind of thing just takes time.

This is still what’s happening in the most current setups unfortunately 🙁

Absolutely. I admit there are problems that need to be fixed. I was just saying some people in the chat can have bad attitudes.

Postato : 01/05/2018 7:48 am
jonathon.b
(@jonathon-b)
Estimable Member
Re: [Testers Needed] Inconsistent Extrusion



Most people are here: https://github.com/prusa3d/Prusa-Firmware/issues/602

That said, beware of the negative people. The truth is that things are getting much better. Its fixing one thing at a time, so people are mad that it isn't a magic fix all at once, but Prusa will get there eventually. This kind of thing just takes time.

This is still what’s happening in the most current setups unfortunately 🙁

Absolutely. I admit there are problems that need to be fixed. I was just saying some people in the chat can have bad attitudes.

I think it’s frustration and at time PRUSA not saying anything at all didn’t help at times either. At least they are trying now, it’s probably several simple things all compounded in the same issure

Postato : 01/05/2018 8:29 am
MTJC
 MTJC
(@mtjc)
Trusted Member
Re: [Testers Needed] Inconsistent Extrusion

Posted this on the 602 github but thought may as well post it here too:


First print object you see (2 shell only 20x20x200mm tower), I varied the extrusion multiplier every 10mm up (and every 10mm there is a small recess in the wall put there by me when i created the stl) ranging from 1.05 down to 0.86 (so decreasing by 0.01 every 10mm up the tower). Noticed the change in moire pattern. Got me thinking the pattern is caused by inconsistent extrusion/flow.

To test the theory, I then made another test, kept the extrusion multiplier constant but increased the amount of coast by 0.1mm every 5mm up, thereby incrementally reducing the total path length of extrusion per layer by 0.1mm every 5mm up. I then repeated it but with 0.2mm incremental increase in coast every 5mm up. The results are seen in the second pair of prints in the video. Not only do see the moire pattern change based on the amount of coast but that it's angle is proportional to the incremental change in coast, with the frequency of the macro pattern doubling with twice the amount of incremental coast too.

Lastly, although I did not show it off in the video, I made another stl with the total perimeter decreasing 0.1mm every 5mm so that it would have the same effect as changing coast 0.1mm every 5mm (at least in theory if caused by inconsistent extrusion) and surprise-surprise, the moire pattern on that came out looking exactly the same.

Postato : 01/05/2018 11:18 pm
jonathon.b
(@jonathon-b)
Estimable Member
Re: [Testers Needed] Inconsistent Extrusion


Posted this on the 602 github but thought may as well post it here too:


First print object you see (2 shell only 20x20x200mm tower), I varied the extrusion multiplier every 10mm up (and every 10mm there is a small recess in the wall put there by me when i created the stl) ranging from 1.05 down to 0.86 (so decreasing by 0.01 every 10mm up the tower). Noticed the change in moire pattern. Got me thinking the pattern is caused by inconsistent extrusion/flow.

To test the theory, I then made another test, kept the extrusion multiplier constant but increased the amount of coast by 0.1mm every 5mm up, thereby incrementally reducing the total path length of extrusion per layer by 0.1mm every 5mm up. I then repeated it but with 0.2mm incremental increase in coast every 5mm up. The results are seen in the second pair of prints in the video. Not only do see the moire pattern change based on the amount of coast but that it's angle is proportional to the incremental change in coast, with the frequency of the macro pattern doubling with twice the amount of incremental coast too.

Lastly, although I did not show it off in the video, I made another stl with the total perimeter decreasing 0.1mm every 5mm so that it would have the same effect as changing coast 0.1mm every 5mm (at least in theory if caused by inconsistent extrusion) and surprise-surprise, the moire pattern on that came out looking exactly the same.

I’m guessing it’s done on S3D, it’s a good little test.

So when it coasts at the end of the movement does it extrude constantly? It would be just under nozzle pressure then and not being pushed by the stepper?

Is the Morie mainly from the x and y steeper’s other than extruder then?

Postato : 02/05/2018 11:21 am
MTJC
 MTJC
(@mtjc)
Trusted Member
Re: [Testers Needed] Inconsistent Extrusion


I’m guessing it’s done on S3D, it’s a good little test.

So when it coasts at the end of the movement does it extrude constantly? It would be just under nozzle pressure then and not being pushed by the stepper?

Is the Morie mainly from the x and y steeper’s other than extruder then?

Correct, I used S3D for this test but performed a few tests checking with different extrusion multipliers on Slic3r PE if the same pattern/effect occurs and it does so I'm sure it's not slicer dependent. The only variable that has changed in the test was the amount of plastic extruded per layer so it's cause has something to do with the extrusion, not x or y.

Postato : 02/05/2018 11:35 am
jonathon.b
(@jonathon-b)
Estimable Member
Re: [Testers Needed] Inconsistent Extrusion



I’m guessing it’s done on S3D, it’s a good little test.

So when it coasts at the end of the movement does it extrude constantly? It would be just under nozzle pressure then and not being pushed by the stepper?

Is the Morie mainly from the x and y steeper’s other than extruder then?

Correct, I used S3D for this test but performed a few tests checking with different extrusion multipliers on Slic3r PE if the same pattern/effect occurs and it does so I'm sure it's not slicer dependent. The only variable that has changed in the test was the amount of plastic extruded per layer so it's cause has something to do with the extrusion, not x or y.

Would you mind sharing the model? The indents seem to help show the changes clearly rather then being blended into one single tower.

I have no idea what else to mess about with now, I played around with E correction a bit and come to a valve of 1.065 and couldn't really see the pattern but I'm now wondering with you video if it could come back if anything of the things you've tried take place.

Postato : 02/05/2018 1:58 pm
MTJC
 MTJC
(@mtjc)
Trusted Member
Re: [Testers Needed] Inconsistent Extrusion


Would you mind sharing the model? The indents seem to help show the changes clearly rather then being blended into one single tower.

I have no idea what else to mess about with now, I played around with E correction a bit and come to a valve of 1.065 and couldn't really see the pattern but I'm now wondering with you video if it could come back if anything of the things you've tried take place.

Here you go.

Postato : 02/05/2018 3:36 pm
jonathon.b
(@jonathon-b)
Estimable Member
Re: [Testers Needed] Inconsistent Extrusion



Would you mind sharing the model? The indents seem to help show the changes clearly rather then being blended into one single tower.

I have no idea what else to mess about with now, I played around with E correction a bit and come to a valve of 1.065 and couldn't really see the pattern but I'm now wondering with you video if it could come back if anything of the things you've tried take place.

Here you go.

Cheers, something to play around with.

Postato : 02/05/2018 5:24 pm
Lee
 Lee
(@lee)
Trusted Member
Re: [Testers Needed] Inconsistent Extrusion

You'd think Prusa would be more active (or at least communicative) over this issue ? It's strange that an issue that effects something as important as print quality on their flagship product hasn't got them commenting more on the issue, being more involved, giving feedback on where they are with dealing with the issue . . . ?

Postato : 03/05/2018 4:28 am
jonathon.b
(@jonathon-b)
Estimable Member
Re: [Testers Needed] Inconsistent Extrusion


You'd think Prusa would be more active (or at least communicative) over this issue ? It's strange that an issue that effects something as important as print quality on their flagship product hasn't got them commenting more on the issue, being more involved, giving feedback on where they are with dealing with the issue . . . ?

you would think so, It seems to me they believe it was more down to the Slic3r cooling bug than anything. That was an issue on small models 100% and hats off they fixed it so it seems.....but its not anything to do with the essence of #602 and the ebbs and flows in extrusion we see pictures of on a daily basis.

Postato : 03/05/2018 7:57 am
schichtenmacher
(@schichtenmacher)
Utenti
Re: [Testers Needed] Inconsistent Extrusion

still having the same problem and following the thread for a while.

i wrote a error on the facebook group about fanerror with simplify3d and a prus developer contacted me to test my problem.
was really surprised that he do that, thats great. my problem with the fan error is solved and will be in the next firmware.
i ask him about this problem with extrusion an told i can help an test. that is what he said

I know 😞 We are working on this intensively, doing different analysis. There are definatelly more things that influence moire / print quality. I don't think that you can help us now, but thank you.

so i think really work on it, but they have no solution until now...

schichtenmacher on instagram
Postato : 03/05/2018 10:48 am
raspeitia
(@raspeitia)
Eminent Member
Re: [Testers Needed] Inconsistent Extrusion

I think that everyone should remember there are 2 separate issues here.

The inconsistent extrusion is this topic. It shows up when you shine a light from above perpendicular across the wall face and looks like a limestone cliff of random uneven surface.

The moire pattern is a separate issue and it looks like a vertical/diagonal (or angular) lines across the surface. This has a definite pattern to it.

There is a topic about tuning this moire out using the latest printer R2 firmware (NOT slic3r). Here is the thread.:

https://shop.prusa3d.com/forum/hardware-firmware-and-software-help-f64/how-to-use-and-tune-the-new-linearity-correction--t17470.html

You may want to test this extruder tuning out to see if it at least resolves one of the issues for you.

Seems 1.06 +/-0.005 is about the value folks are getting to minimize the moire effect.

Postato : 03/05/2018 2:08 pm
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