pla and petg not sticking to flexibile PEI sheet, tried cleaning with IPA and windex
 
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pla and petg not sticking to flexibile PEI sheet, tried cleaning with IPA and windex  

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william.k12
(@william-k12)
New Member
pla and petg not sticking to flexibile PEI sheet, tried cleaning with IPA and windex

I've tried cleaning with 90% isopropanol and windex but can't seem to get good adhesion between the first layer and the brown spring steel PEI sheet. When I print large enough objects, they print perfectly, but come off very easily. Small objects don't have enough adhesion and come loose during printing. Any suggestions?

I have tried live z adjust to push the plastic down harder and experimented with different first layer temps and heat bed temps and nothing seems to help.

Posted : 23/02/2019 1:55 am
thrawn86
(@thrawn86)
Honorable Member
Re: pla and petg not sticking to flexibile PEI sheet, tried cleaning with IPA and windex

scotchbrite/scouring pad/000 steel wool, scuff up the bed and clean with acetone.

what layer height, speed and temperature for your first layer?

Posted : 23/02/2019 5:55 am
toaf
 toaf
(@toaf)
Noble Member
Re: pla and petg not sticking to flexibile PEI sheet, tried cleaning with IPA and windex

you can always try dish soap and water (rinsed off in the sink). but make sure you put windex on after if you are printing petG

pla dish soap and water (rinsed off in the sink)

I have a Prusa,therefore I research.

Posted : 23/02/2019 6:11 am
Peter M
(@peter-m)
Noble Member
Re: pla and petg not sticking to flexibile PEI sheet, tried cleaning with IPA and windex

Do not do this, scotchbrite/scouring pad/000 steel wool.

Do a good z live adjust! (this is very importend).
Do this slower! if needed,
Do this hotter , if needed,

Bed cleaning :
acetone 1x a month, normally not needed.(if you print a lot).
Then every print with a clean paper, alcohol 95%, not with water in it.

If you use a stick, then clean with glas cleaner, after this the alcohol.

And 1 x a month Or more often, clean with dish soap, do this 2 times , let the bed soak a little bit.
Here also clean with alcohol before printing.

Small prints is normal that they do not stick, and come loose,
1 the 3d printer hits against print, is normal
2 the foot print is small, so print with a brim attache to the print, and make the print bigger, on the bed.

Z calibration do this with a hot bed!
z live calibration- do this with a hot bed, 60 or 100, yes for every type of filament could be different, check this.

Posted : 23/02/2019 5:47 pm
william.k12
(@william-k12)
New Member
Topic starter answered:
Re: pla and petg not sticking to flexibile PEI sheet, tried cleaning with IPA and windex

dish soap and water helped a lot! Thanks all.

Posted : 23/02/2019 6:34 pm
ben.g16
(@ben-g16)
Estimable Member
Re: pla and petg not sticking to flexibile PEI sheet, tried cleaning with IPA and windex

Like many of you, my (6 mo old) mk3 worked fine initially, then began to loose adhesion. I tried all the steps listed here - IPA, acetone, Windex, soap and water, filament and bed temps, Z calibration, speeds, etc. I even sent back a spool of PLA thinking it was the cause. While the results varied, nothing worked well enough to save a print. Interestingly, the first flament that quit sticking was Prusa silver. Some black filament of another brand kept working until it ran out. Then my brand new gray filament wouldn't stick.

After 2 weeks of failures on 20 some starts, I flipped the mk3 steel sheet to the unused side, thinking it would be perfect. Unfortunately, I got the same results.

As far as I can tell, the cause has to be failure of the PEI coating. I have read many examples of MK machines working well for a while, then developing sticking problems. When I flipped the sheet and got the same behavior, it made me wonder if prolonged heating degrades the PEI coating, regardless of use.

So, I decided to put a surface over the PEI and coated it with hair spray. It is very good that you can remove the steel sheet and spray it elsewhere so as not to contaminate the rest of the works. After the first spray, adhesion improved, but not enough to save a print. On the second spray I basically soaked the sheet, then let it dry without wiping, until all the “pools” of hair spray evaporated. I got a perfect print. That tells me the filament was sticking to the hair spray, not the PEI.

A definitive test of the PEI coating aging/degradation would be to install a new sheet without any other changes and see if the filament sticks. My bet is it will.

For me, I am going to clean the sheet with with soap and water, maybe some IPA, then apply a hefty coat of hair spray.

I hope the rep rap community has some chemists in it that will look into the durability of PEI and/or find another material that is more reliable.

Posted : 23/02/2019 7:24 pm
thrawn86
(@thrawn86)
Honorable Member
Re: pla and petg not sticking to flexibile PEI sheet, tried cleaning with IPA and windex


Do not do this, scotchbrite/scouring pad/000 steel wool.

I'm thinking that everyone who says this is under the impression we're talking about taking a belt sander to the bed, or doesn't understand how fine and non-destructive a scouring pad is. This method works and has been used for a long time. Acetone won't hurt you PEI unless you're using daily every 15 minutes.

You can use whatever method you want, but scuffed PLAIN, BARE pei with no additives being cleaned with nothing but alcohol and acetone WILL stick to every kind of filament if prepared properly. something is not right if you need hairspray or other magic sauce to get filament to stick.

Posted : 23/02/2019 11:25 pm
Peter M
(@peter-m)
Noble Member
Re: pla and petg not sticking to flexibile PEI sheet, tried cleaning with IPA and windex

Petg needs a glue stick, otherwise you can damage your pei, because it sticks to much.

Also let the bed cool down, and then you can bent the bed, if you do it to early then you damage the sticker(pei).

Posted : 24/02/2019 12:34 am
JTa
 JTa
(@jta)
Active Member
Re: pla and petg not sticking to flexibile PEI sheet, tried cleaning with IPA and windex


Petg needs a glue stick, otherwise you can damage your pei, because it sticks to much.

If you need to add glue (or anything else) on PEI sheet to make it not stick too much, there's something wrong with your print setting. Most likely you're printing the first layer too close to the bed. PETG needs to be layed gently on the bed NOT smashed like ABS or PLA.

Posted : 24/02/2019 1:14 am
rob.l6
(@rob-l6)
Honorable Member
Re: pla and petg not sticking to flexibile PEI sheet, tried cleaning with IPA and windex

Yes, at most PETG should only need something like Windex as a release agent. Mostly though I don't use anything for PETG, just make sure there is no debris lying on the bed. I've never had good results with using glue for anything. IPA, Acetone and Windex are all that I ever use.

Spending the time to check your z height carefully, and periodically, would I think solve many peoples problems with adhesion.

And the IPA concentrate should be 99%, not 90. There is a big difference.

Posted : 24/02/2019 6:20 am
rob.l6
(@rob-l6)
Honorable Member
Re: pla and petg not sticking to flexibile PEI sheet, tried cleaning with IPA and windex


I've tried cleaning with 90% isopropanol and windex but can't seem to get good adhesion.

Windex is used as a release agent for PETG. Make sure your IPA is 99%, but first give the sheet a wipe over with Acetone, and nothing else. Then try PLA. 💡 And re-check your z height.

Posted : 24/02/2019 6:24 am
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