First layer, what is wrong?
https://photos.app.goo.gl/J3wb6AT7gTvzLusY7
Have done many first layer calibrations. Still not able to print. Comes loose during second or third layer. First layer dies not look perfekt. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Extruder issue? Z calib value at -1.0600mm.
RE: First layer, what is wrong?
check the temperature of the pinda I noticed that the height of the Z varies with the temperature of the pinda
have a staggered custom which varies from pinda a 30 degree Z -0.760 to pinda a 50 degree Z -1.550
RE: First layer, what is wrong?
That first layer looks horrible. At first glance I'd say this is severely under extruded and not necessarily a Z offset problem. But it could be you need to go way more negative on the Z offset.
The individual traces should be touching to the point where they're fusing and create an uniform surface without ridges.
What are the dimensions (width, height) of the extruded trace? They should be 0.15-0.20mm height (assuming Slic3r is set to 0.20mm first layer) and 0.45-0.55mm width (assuming a .40mm nozzle). I suggest using a caliper to measure.
The correct Z offset can be anywhere between -0.5 to -1.7mm depending on how you assembled the printer and may change (as Fabrice states) depending on the PINDA temperature (you can see that temperature in the Support/Temperatures menu). When tuning the Z offset, make sure you do that at a constant temperature (eg. a well ventilated room).
Your -1.06mm is within the range of possibly correct values, but is probably still too high (meaning not enough negative) for your printer.
RE: First layer, what is wrong?
Try Jeff's Live-Z Adjust Method ...
The offset in Live-Z is related to the distance of the PINDA from the nozzle tip. My Live-Z is about -0.650 - and I occasionally think my PINDA will hit the part ... lol. I've thought about raising it. Your -1.060 is pretty normal, and some people are at -1.750 without any issues. But anything approaching -2.000 (the PINDA detection height) would be problematic, and nozzle-bed collisions can be expected.
RE: First layer, what is wrong?
- Le Z ne doit pas depasser -1.0mm indiqué sur le manuel
RE: First layer, what is wrong?
From my Manual, page 24: But this is an earlier version, and says to raise the pinda when you really should be lowering it.
Observe the line which is being extruded on the print surface. A new menu will automatically show up where you can tune the nozzle height in real time by turning the knob. The aim is to adjust the nozzle height until the extruded plastic sticks nicely to the bed and you can see that it is being slightly squished. The value should not exceed -2.000 mm. If you have to adjust it more (e.g. 2.500), move the P.I.N.D.A probe slightly higher. Please refer to our knowledge base in case the P.I.N.D.A probe needs to be re-aligned.
RE: First layer, what is wrong?
I have the exact same issue, but my layers look worse. When the bed is moving the lines become crooked. Cleaned the bed with isopropyl alcohol and wiped clean. (Filament provided with the kit). I have played with different z settings and pinda heights and not found a good combination yet.
RE: First layer, what is wrong?
I have the exact same issue, but my layers look worse. When the bed is moving the lines become crooked. Cleaned the bed with isopropyl alcohol and wiped clean. (Filament provided with the kit). I have played with different z settings and pinda heights and not found a good combination yet.
Your live Z is way too far from the bed as evidenced by the purge line. You'll need to make it more negative. See here for pictures of how your first layer should look and more info on getting it right:
RE: First layer, what is wrong?
From my Manual, page 24: But this is an earlier version, and says to raise the pinda when you really should be lowering it.
Observe the line which is being extruded on the print surface. A new menu will automatically show up where you can tune the nozzle height in real time by turning the knob. The aim is to adjust the nozzle height until the extruded plastic sticks nicely to the bed and you can see that it is being slightly squished. The value should not exceed -2.000 mm. If you have to adjust it more (e.g. 2.500), move the P.I.N.D.A probe slightly higher. Please refer to our knowledge base in case the P.I.N.D.A probe needs to be re-aligned.
It is confusing, but I think it is right as written. Negative live Z values that are bigger mean the probe is too far down relative to the nozzle (triggering earlier than desired). Moving the PINDA up will correct this.
RE: First layer, what is wrong?
Found a z value for a decent print, but it lifts off the bed and it gets ruined. Do I need to apply glue to the bed for pla?
RE: First layer, what is wrong?
Found a z value for a decent print, but it lifts off the bed and it gets ruined. Do I need to apply glue to the bed for pla?
I've applied glue, same thing. This time it wasn't able to get that far before lifting off... temperature not high enough?
RE: First layer, what is wrong?
Post a picture of the bottom of the part.
PLA should not need glue on PEI. if it does, your bed is probably dirty or contaminated. Take it to the sink and wash it with hot water and dish soap sans additives, scrub and dry using new paper towel (no kitchen sponges/rags!) Acetone and IPA simply will not remove fingerprint oils and those are the number 1 cause of adhesion issues. Once you wash it, handle only by the edges - that will cut down on how often you need to wash it again.
RE: First layer, what is wrong?
Post a picture of the bottom of the part.
PLA should not need glue on PEI. if it does, your bed is probably dirty or contaminated. Take it to the sink and wash it with hot water and dish soap sans additives, scrub and dry using new paper towel (no kitchen sponges/rags!) Acetone and IPA simply will not remove fingerprint oils and those are the number 1 cause of adhesion issues. Once you wash it, handle only by the edges - that will cut down on how often you need to wash it again.
Here they are, front and back
RE: First layer, what is wrong?
your nozzle is still too far from the bed as evidenced by your first layer. Make your live z even more negative.
RE: First layer, what is wrong?
Absolutely agreed. Your first layer is still way too high. You need to go more negative. If you have a caliper, measure the thickness of your first layer. It should be no more than 0.2mm. Right now you're closer to 0.4mm.
RE: First layer, what is wrong?
I washed the steel steet with dishsoap, handled it by the edges and adjusted z as close as possible. In fact I even managed to puncture the steel sheet. The print (prusa logo) is still lifting itself (always from the right) when it's got 10 min left.
RE: First layer, what is wrong?
Adhesion is a problem with large area prints: often raising bed temp another 5 to 10c is helpful. But if something is lifting, contamination is almost always present. Best to do the soap and water wash: don't follow it with alcohol or acetone or you'll just deposit more oil on the bed. The streak test is your best guide to how dirty the bed is. Wipe some alcohol around the bed, take a photo after and post it up.
Hot Water wash: often, as needed
Handle the bed only by the edges.
Wash the bed in hot water, use a fresh paper towel as a wash cloth, with a few drops of plain dish soap (Dawn, unscented, no anti-bacterial, etc.). Rinse well in hot water - if you have very soft water, rinse a bit longer.
Dry the bed with a fresh paper towel.
Handle the bed only by the edges.
Place bed on printer.
Alcohol rinse: every few prints
Once in a while, an alcohol rinse is helpful to remove PLA residue. It does not remove finger oils.
Pour a 5 cm puddle of 91%+ alcohol in the middle of the bed, with clean hands use a fresh paper towel to scrub the bed. Wipe up all the alcohol.
Streak test: when contamination is suspected and after a wash
With a fresh piece of paper towel, and very clean fingers, dampen the towel with 91%+ alcohol, and wipe the bed side to side moving back to front, like you're painting it with alcohol. The alcohol should be thin enough on the towel it quickly evaporates. If you see any streaks, the bed is dirty and needs a wash.
Acetone wash: infrequent
Pour a 2 cm puddle of acetone on the bed, scrub it around with a fresh paper towel. It will evaporate fast as you clean. This step removes PEI oxides that form over time and with heat, and improves PLA adhesion to a like new state.
ps: If adding a gluestick layer helps, the bed is extremely dirty.
RE: First layer, what is wrong?
I washed the steel steet with dishsoap, handled it by the edges and adjusted z as close as possible. In fact I even managed to puncture the steel sheet. The print (prusa logo) is still lifting itself (always from the right) when it's got 10 min left.
Your photos say otherwise... the only thing I can think of based on this is that something is not assembled correctly, or your bed is not flat (warped or there is junk/stray filament under it)
My suggestions at this point:
1.Get a metal straight edge (ruler, square, etc) and place it on the bed at different angles and different positions. Look for light passing under it as a sign that there is a bow somewhere, and investigate. Small amounts may be normal but not to the degree we are seeing based on your photo.
2. Use the printer's "move axis" to raise your Z rods to near the top of the frame. Look at the X rods - are they parallel to the inner top edge of the frame? If not, run Z calibration and check again. If still not, check your Z top assembly and look for something binding like a stray zip tie head, cable bundle, etc. -- When doing Z cal, both X ends should hit the Z tops. If one does not, there is a mechanical problem.
3. After 2 is verified and with Z at "0.0", now use Move axis" on X and Y to sweep the nozzle across the build plate. The distance between the nozzle and bed should remain the same within your perception. If not, again, there is an issue to find. Start by inspecting your Y assembly - bearings all seated right? Rods seated and aligned properly?
Let us know how it goes; that should help narrow down the cause.
RE: First layer, what is wrong?
Thank you all for the replies, I will try the above and will follow up!
RE: First layer, what is wrong?
Adding this detail to the conversation: 😠
