Correct Order of Calibration?
Hey guys! New to the forum! Just got my mk3s this week! Getting some decent prints out of it, but I am in the process of dialing it in to go those crisp prints my soul desires.
Been reading @bobstro 's blog and there is a ton of gold there. Bob, if you are reading this, I have a couple of questions for you:
1. What is the correct order to calibrate things? From what I gathered from your blog its
- Linear Advance
- What exactly am i looking for on your calibration tower? - Extrusion Multiplier
- Live Z - Live Z here because a perfectly calibrated live z will change after extrusion multiplier has changed
- Temperature
- Retraction
Am I missing any thing here? Do you have an efficient fast process to make these calibrations for each filament? It seems like with each filament it could take 4-6 hours to calibrate each individual roll following your steps on the site. Is that correct or have you found a way to steamline it a bit?
2. Ive been working through the guide, so far Ive gotten the first four done. Im now working on testing retraction using the nine extruder technique that is mentioned on your blog. My first test (with wiping turned off) tested zhop from .02 - .04 and retraction distance from .02-.04 retraction speed @55ms detraction speed @ 25mms. Still getting retraction on all nine samples. Should I continue to play with the zhop and retraction speeds or try something else?
3. My extrusion multiplier is tuned for my filament and I am getting correct extrusion widths, however I am still getting just a hint of over extrusion on the corners of square prints. Turning off wiping has reduced it alot but its not gone. Should I continue to reduce my extrusion multiplier until the corner over extrusion is gone still? Wouldn't that make my extrusion widths incorrect?
Best Answer by bobstro:
@azxciv -- Sorry, I've been tied up recently starting a new job and keeping up with my notes pages.
Here's what I go with along with a bit of rationale:
- Live-Z. At least enough with the on-board routine (which is exclusive of extrusion multiplier which is a slicer setting) to get good adhesion, even if not "perfect" height. I might repeat with a specific filament if doing a job where 1st layer is important and I want the best look.
- Extrusion multiplier. This is per-filament, so goes into a filament preset. This avoids a host of oozing and stringing problems. IMO, this is the single most important setting that should be done before the rest as it impacts them all.
- Retraction. Usually goes away with good extrusion multiplier, so rarely tweaked.
- Temperature. OK, I'm going to go against common wisdom here and suggest this is more for adhesion and part strength rather than finish. I don't bother with temp towers etc. If I want nice finish and minimal stringing, I'll go "cool". If I want strong parts and good adhesion, I'll go "hot". Cool & hot are near the lower and upper filament printing ranges respectively.
- Linear advance. This is a "finishing touch" per-filament setting. I find a range of values per filament type is usually sufficient.
Sorry to be absent for so long. I'm still around, just not doing as much 3D printing lately.
Stop obsessing.
Reset everything to defaults (ok, save a copy for later first).
Run the XYZ calibration if you have not yet done so.
Run a first layer Z calibration - show us the calibration print *on the print sheet* if you're unsure.
And start printing.
Every user builds their printer slightly differently and pre-built models are shaken up in transit so during the first few weeks of use the printer will run-in and settle its parts together; then you will have to go over the basic maintenance checks, lubricate and recalibrate. Even if you got everything dialled in perfectly today, it would all need re-doing.
Better to settle, temporarily, for a basic working printer and get some useful printing done, make your early mistakes, establish a routine and generally get used to the process. Then when you do your one month service you can take extra care knowing the new settings on your now stable printer are likely to last for several months.
Cheerio,
RE: Correct Order of Calibration?
I agree mostly with Diem.
I've found through experience that things such as LA, EM, retraction seldom if ever need to be set away from the well-behaved default.
Temperature, maybe, if needed, but I've found that there is a lot of wiggle room. I've only found one brand of filament (Mika3D) which needs a temperature other than the default for PLA.
Z calibration, however, can be critical. Most folks start with the internal Z calibration and get that dialed in, then go to either one of those 3x3 square things or one of the larger single-rectangle prints to check for any front/rear and/or left/right tweaking that needs to be done.
The proof will be the visual quality and the consistency of your prints. I daresay that a print done with tweaked LA/EM/whatever will seldom be distinguishable from one using defaults.
RE:
Thanks for the input guys. My first layer is dialed in.
Looking to tweak some things because my prints look good, but I have some zits in my layers during prints (stock). Adjusting my extrusion width seems to have solved most of that, just now my top layer is not smooth (yes i re adjusted my z after extrusion width).
RE: Correct Order of Calibration?
@azxciv
In order the summon bobstro you have to say his name three times, like @Beetlejuice,@Beetlejuice,@Beetlejuice.
Good Luck 😉
Swiss_Cheese
The Filament Whisperer
RE: Correct Order of Calibration?
LOL!
@bobstro , @bobstro , @bobstro !
RE: Correct Order of Calibration?
🤣 👍
The Filament Whisperer
RE: Correct Order of Calibration?
Stop obsessing.
Reset everything to defaults (ok, save a copy for later first).
Run the XYZ calibration if you have not yet done so.
Run a first layer Z calibration - show us the calibration print *on the print sheet* if you're unsure.
And start printing.
Every user builds their printer slightly differently and pre-built models are shaken up in transit so during the first few weeks of use the printer will run-in and settle its parts together; then you will have to go over the basic maintenance checks, lubricate and recalibrate. Even if you got everything dialled in perfectly today, it would all need re-doing.
Better to settle, temporarily, for a basic working printer and get some useful printing done, make your early mistakes, establish a routine and generally get used to the process. Then when you do your one month service you can take extra care knowing the new settings on your now stable printer are likely to last for several months.
Cheerio,
This makes sense. When you get confused and can't figure it out, going back to factory settings will help you better converse with support via chat.
--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog
RE: Correct Order of Calibration?
I realize how profound this advice was last night. While my prints are not as crisp as I'd like, I actually had fun when I pulled something off the plate that was not a calibration piece. Calibrating isn't really that fun when you obsess over it constantly. Lesson learned.
But when im ready just so I know. Whats the correct order to do things? Not planning to do so until i get my first 200 hours of print time in.
The most likely first one to matter will be temperature; most of us have a spool or two marked "+10C" or similar. You should stick to high quality filament at first but once you are confident and begin to buy cheaper stuff for prototyping the next calibration will be measurements of the filament thickness.
Neither of these affect basic settings, just create a profile for the filament concerned until the spool runs out..
The single commonest calibration is first layer Z offset, it will drift over time as your nozzle wears but until you get into exotic filaments once every couple of months will do.
Everything else can safely be ignored until you begin to see symptoms, usually when you have some testing parameters to meet.
Cheerio,
RE: Correct Order of Calibration?
@azxciv -- Sorry, I've been tied up recently starting a new job and keeping up with my notes pages.
Here's what I go with along with a bit of rationale:
- Live-Z. At least enough with the on-board routine (which is exclusive of extrusion multiplier which is a slicer setting) to get good adhesion, even if not "perfect" height. I might repeat with a specific filament if doing a job where 1st layer is important and I want the best look.
- Extrusion multiplier. This is per-filament, so goes into a filament preset. This avoids a host of oozing and stringing problems. IMO, this is the single most important setting that should be done before the rest as it impacts them all.
- Retraction. Usually goes away with good extrusion multiplier, so rarely tweaked.
- Temperature. OK, I'm going to go against common wisdom here and suggest this is more for adhesion and part strength rather than finish. I don't bother with temp towers etc. If I want nice finish and minimal stringing, I'll go "cool". If I want strong parts and good adhesion, I'll go "hot". Cool & hot are near the lower and upper filament printing ranges respectively.
- Linear advance. This is a "finishing touch" per-filament setting. I find a range of values per filament type is usually sufficient.
Sorry to be absent for so long. I'm still around, just not doing as much 3D printing lately.
RE:
Z calibration, however, can be critical. Most folks start with the internal Z calibration and get that dialed in, then go to either one of those 3x3 square things or one of the larger single-rectangle prints to check for any front/rear and/or left/right tweaking that needs to be done.
Wording adds a lot to the confusion of new users... We should really try to get the wording straight, preferably according to the documentation.
Z calibration is part of the XYZ calibration procedure and is referred to for example here: https://help.prusa3d.com/article/failing-z-calibration-mk3s-mk2-5s_160858
Not to be confused with first layer calibration (no z in here) referred to here: https://help.prusa3d.com/article/first-layer-calibration-i3_112364
Most of the people on the forum know what you mean when you say that "z calibration can be crucial" - but a newbie searching the knowledge base might not and end up in the wrong place...
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.
RE: Correct Order of Calibration?
Hey Bobstro! Thanks for your response! No need to apologize!
Thanks for clearing things up for me!
One more thing. How should I interpret the linear advance tower that’s provided on your site? Am I looking for rounded but not to sharp/dull corners? And should the seam on the back of it be concave/convex/flat ?
RE: Correct Order of Calibration?
Thanks for clearing that up! I definitely thought he was talking about the first layer.
What does it look like to get the Z calibration dialed in beyond passing the z portion of the XYZ test ?
RE: Correct Order of Calibration?
There's a lot of overloading, both in casual conversation and in the official documents regarding the terms that pertain to Z calibration and first-layer calibration.
I usually use the term 'Z calibration' to refer to what TFM calls 'Live Z' (or 'Life Z' [sic]), whether it's done with the internal zig-zag and flag, the My Way square, or the various 3x3 and similar one-layer test prints.
Similar dialing-in is used in both the 'First layer cal' and 'Live Z cal' via the front panel.
RE:
[...] One more thing. How should I interpret the linear advance tower that’s provided on your site? Am I looking for rounded but not to sharp/dull corners? And should the seam on the back of it be concave/convex/flat ?
Look for the result that most resembles the part as it appears in the slicer preview. Everything should look like simple regular rectangles. Exact corner sharpness may depend on your chosen nozzle size and/or extrusion width, so look for "close". The main thing is to avoid the extreme "dog bone" or rounded corners. As with any 3D printing results, it's more like cooking than engineering. There aren't settings that are guaranteed to produce perfect results with every combination of settings, filament, or printer.
That print is as much a demonstration as anything else. It is way too big and slow to print to use as a regular calibration print. Little 25mm cubes are probably sufficient for testing a small range of values. Of course, you can cut the test tower town if desired.