Re: Extruder feed problem
so, sadly i am having the same problem.
conditions:
- Prusa Logo from SD Card printed succesfully
- PLA filament delivered with the printer (silver)
then i started to print the dragon from the Prusa SD Card.
the extruder started to stutter (clicking) on random layers. everytime i pushed the filament with high force and it continued to print. after 1-3 layers it started to stutter again. the printer keeps on moving like there is no issue, but keeps on clicking (i also felt it at the filament itself).
However i noticed that it mostly happens on the bottom right of the printed part.
so i stoped the print and removed the filament (it didnt unloaded it with the function. i had to pull it out)
the filament looked ok for me. it was a bit squished where the extruderweel was, so i loosened the 2 screws with the springs for about 1/2 turn to have less force on the filament (i had them at 14mm, so even less force then the manual recommend).
i started another print. and again after about 3 layers, the extruder startet to stutter. i pushed the filament with force and it continued to transport the filament. 2 layers later, same story. always at the bottom right (if you look from the top).
i am an absolute newbie to 3d print and was super excited when i managed to print the prusa logo on the 2nd try after adjustements successfully.
so i read the solution from john.w14
i ordered some thermal paste and will try his suggestion. i'll update my experience.
or are there any other ideas or thoughts?
Re: Extruder feed problem
I wonder if this is related to the 'weak blob layers' problem, try if it happens with your printer:
1) Set nozzle temp to low end of the temp range for the filament, e.g. 190C if range is 190-220C for PLA.
2) Move extruder up high so you can see better whats happening.
3)Load filament
4) Load filament again and watch and listen during the phase when the thick extrusion happens. I think if it's clicking and jerking during the thick extrusion phase, but not if you set the temp to the maximum range for the filament, it might mean something. The question is what?
I think it might mean that there is a high risk of weak blob layers at random during printing.
Re: Extruder feed problem
To MrMik:
I replaced the whole assembly provided by Prusa ( http://shop.prusa3d.com/en/mk2-spare-parts/120-e3d-v61-assembled-hotend.html ), i.e. the heater, temp sensor, heatsink, nozzle and ptfe pipe... but no way to get my part printed.
One new thing, in case experts from Prusa glance from time to time at this forum and may understand the problem we are all facing: I printed the same part in ABS, just changing the filament type in slic3r, all other parameters kept unchanged, and it printed correctly. The only problem is that ABS is a little softer than PLA and thus my part is not rigid enough...
I printed since then 10 other small parts in ABS with no problem.
I'm just really scared having to change back to PLA...
BR
JYL
Re: Extruder feed problem
I wonder if this is related to the 'weak blob layers' problem, try if it happens with your printer:
1) Set nozzle temp to low end of the temp range for the filament, e.g. 190C if range is 190-220C for PLA.
2) Move extruder up high so you can see better whats happening.
3)Load filament
4) Load filament again and watch and listen during the phase when the thick extrusion happens. I think if it's clicking and jerking during the thick extrusion phase, but not if you set the temp to the maximum range for the filament, it might mean something. The question is what?
I think it might mean that there is a high risk of weak blob layers at random during printing.
Would this be a filament problem or an extruder problem?
Re: Extruder feed problem
so, sadly i am having the same problem.
conditions:
- Prusa Logo from SD Card printed succesfully
- PLA filament delivered with the printer (silver)
then i started to print the dragon from the Prusa SD Card.
the extruder started to stutter (clicking) on random layers. everytime i pushed the filament with high force and it continued to print. after 1-3 layers it started to stutter again. the printer keeps on moving like there is no issue, but keeps on clicking (i also felt it at the filament itself).
However i noticed that it mostly happens on the bottom right of the printed part.
so i stoped the print and removed the filament (it didnt unloaded it with the function. i had to pull it out)
the filament looked ok for me. it was a bit squished where the extruderweel was, so i loosened the 2 screws with the springs for about 1/2 turn to have less force on the filament (i had them at 14mm, so even less force then the manual recommend).
i started another print. and again after about 3 layers, the extruder startet to stutter. i pushed the filament with force and it continued to transport the filament. 2 layers later, same story. always at the bottom right (if you look from the top).
i am an absolute newbie to 3d print and was super excited when i managed to print the prusa logo on the 2nd try after adjustements successfully.
so i read the solution from john.w14
i ordered some thermal paste and will try his suggestion. i'll update my experience.
or are there any other ideas or thoughts?
i spent some time the last days to have a deeper look into this problem.
in short:,i found the issue for my extruder stuttering. the filament feeder screws (those with the springs) been tightened to much. i loosened them alot more then it is suggested in the build-manual and since then my prusa mk2s prints like a charm. i did 3 perfect prints so far (7h, 16h, 13h). So, make sure there is still enough pressure so the filament wont slip.
let me also tell you what i have tried and how i solved my issue:
first of all i tried the tipp from john.w14 with the thermal paste. since i disassembled the heat break for this, i also check the PTFE tube as MrMik suggested. my "Stock-PTFE-Tube" was already tapered and chamfered.
Testprint failed due stottering at layer 3.
then i changed the filament.
Testprint failed due stottering after bout 10 minutes.
then i startet to print "Adalinda" (the dragon). as soon the extruder startet to stutter, i pushed the filament into the extruder and it continued to work as it should. my conclusion was that either the motor is to weak or the lateral pressure on the extruder wheel is to tough. so i loosened the filament feeder screws (those with the springs) 1/2 turn. another stuttering after another 3min printing. pushed the filament again, loosened the screw another 1/2 turn. and so on. until the print went smooth for at least 6h (until Adalinda was finished).
this is why i am sure in my case the issue was caused by the filament pushed to hard to the extruder wheel. also the fact the stuttering happened always at the bottom right of the prints make sense. at this position the filament itself generates lateral pressure on the extruder wheel.
i hope you guys understud everything what i'm trying to say. 😀
i am superhappy with my prints and a little proud i found the solution. 😉
Re: Extruder feed problem
i spent some time the last days to have a deeper look into this problem.
in short:,i found the issue for my extruder stuttering. the filament feeder screws (those with the springs) been tightened to much. i loosened them alot more then it is suggested in the build-manual and since then my prusa mk2s prints like a charm. i did 3 perfect prints so far (7h, 16h, 13h). So, make sure there is still enough pressure so the filament wont slip.
let me also tell you what i have tried and how i solved my issue:
first of all i tried the tipp from john.w14 with the thermal paste. since i disassembled the heat break for this, i also check the PTFE tube as MrMik suggested. my "Stock-PTFE-Tube" was already tapered and chamfered.
Testprint failed due stottering at layer 3.
then i changed the filament.
Testprint failed due stottering after bout 10 minutes.
then i startet to print "Adalinda" (the dragon). as soon the extruder startet to stutter, i pushed the filament into the extruder and it continued to work as it should. my conclusion was that either the motor is to weak or the lateral pressure on the extruder wheel is to tough. so i loosened the filament feeder screws (those with the springs) 1/2 turn. another stuttering after another 3min printing. pushed the filament again, loosened the screw another 1/2 turn. and so on. until the print went smooth for at least 6h (until Adalinda was finished).
this is why i am sure in my case the issue was caused by the filament pushed to hard to the extruder wheel. also the fact the stuttering happened always at the bottom right of the prints make sense. at this position the filament itself generates lateral pressure on the extruder wheel.
i hope you guys understud everything what i'm trying to say. 😀
i am superhappy with my prints and a little proud i found the solution. 😉
Well done and thanks for the detailed explanation!
I went through the extremes for adjusting the idler tension springs while I had the problem with random under-extrusion, but in my case this did not fix it. I needed to fix the PTFE tube.
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There are definitively several different causes for the same problem. And I think they might be cumulative.
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For example, if your printers 'filament feeding resistance' is getting close to the point where the stuttering would start (because of PTFE tube or worn hobbed pulley or weak motor or wrong idler tensioning screw adjustment), then under-extrusion failures will happen more often toward the end of a spool of filament, because it is more tightly bent and the memory of the curve while on the spool can increase resistance somewhere .
Re: Extruder feed problem
in the thread http://shop.prusa3d.com/forum/original-prusa-i3-mk2-f23/extruder-motor-jumping-t5577.html i found the comment of PJR that sums it up very well:
A few possible causes:
Dirty filament drive pulley
Spool not turning smoothly
Filament twisted on spool
Bad tension setting
Partially blocked nozzle
Damaged PTFE tube
Temperature insufficient
Re: Extruder feed problem
Since I was in the hurry to get my parts printed, I found a basic workaround to this problem:
Stop printing with PLA and use ABS instead!
Results are perfect.
I thus don't think this is an issue with PTFE pipe, dirty pulley, bad tension, or so...
My 2 cents guess would be that the fan cooling the upper part of the hot-end is not strong enough, and the local temperature gets too high for PLA starting to melt at the top of the hot-end and thus leading to clogging up.
Once I get a little time, I'll give a try with PLA after moving the printer to a cooler place.
BR
JYL
Re: Extruder feed problem
Since I was in the hurry to get my parts printed, I found a basic workaround to this problem:
Stop printing with PLA and use ABS instead!
Results are perfect.
I thus don't think this is an issue with PTFE pipe, dirty pulley, bad tension, or so...
My 2 cents guess would be that the fan cooling the upper part of the hot-end is not strong enough, and the local temperature gets too high for PLA starting to melt at the top of the hot-end and thus leading to clogging up.
Once I get a little time, I'll give a try with PLA after moving the printer to a cooler place.
BR
JYL
Interesting hypothesis.
Maybe I 'adjusted' the PTFE tube when temperatures were dropping during the Australian 'Winter', and the ambient temperature drop is what really did the trick.
But then, I had been printing throughout Summer, using the enclosure with almost 40C temperatures around the printer, and the results were often near perfect.
.
It's a bit like when you get hives for the first time: Bloody annoying, distressing, and no obvious explanation. If you take the time to trace back your steps and actions for the 24-48hrs before the hives started, then you will probably identify multiple potential exposures to new chemicals and / or psychological stressors that might have had something to do with triggering the hives. And unless you get hives all the time, you'll never be certain what caused them. Count your blessings if it goes away, but don't bet on a particular 'cure' being the actual reason for the disappearance of the problem.
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At the core, it comes down to the increasing complexity of these self replicating printers: They are sort of alive! And thus they might suffer from depression, autoimmune diseases, infections, food poisoning etc etc etc. 😛 😛
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Or in other words, the same symptoms can be caused by many different diseases. And some of them fix themselves, sometimes, and then we draw the conclusion that whatever we tried last has fixed the problem.
Re: Extruder feed problem
I had a similar problem. My extruder clogged after 20 mins of printing, and then the filament would not come out, but it has an easy solution. Check your retraction settings. Try bringing them down to 1 mm. That did the trick for me. Later on, you can start adjusting the retraction settings and moving them up little by little. I hope this helps.
Re: Extruder feed problem
Wondering if I have this kind of issue or something else.
I just finished my build of the kit, all tests were OK. Once I tried to print the V2Calibration (Zig Zag) all I was getting was a very thin hair of filament. After many retries I opened the screws/springs all the way and removed the filament entirely. If I then run "unload filament thehob wheel spins correctly as if to eject the filament. BUT If I use "load filament" the hob wheel just vibrates in place (no rotation) . This makes me think the lack of material coming out of the nozzle is because there is no positive pressure on the filament. This is my first build and Im not sure if I have a bad/weak motor, Im not sure what else could cause this behaviour. ?
Any thought if this problem is related to this thread? or do I have a different issue. LOST.
Look @ your join date & # of posts. If > 1/day, please read more and type less. We will both be smarter for it.
Re: Extruder feed problem
Wondering if I have this kind of issue or something else.
I just finished my build of the kit, all tests were OK. Once I tried to print the V2Calibration (Zig Zag) all I was getting was a very thin hair of filament. After many retries I opened the screws/springs all the way and removed the filament entirely. If I then run "unload filament thehob wheel spins correctly as if to eject the filament. BUT If I use "load filament" the hob wheel just vibrates in place (no rotation) . This makes me think the lack of material coming out of the nozzle is because there is no positive pressure on the filament. This is my first build and Im not sure if I have a bad/weak motor, Im not sure what else could cause this behaviour. ?
Any thought if this problem is related to this thread? or do I have a different issue. LOST.
If I understand correctly you're saying the motor doesn't turn on the "load filament" option even if there's no filament (and therefore nothing making the turning difficult)? The vibration you describe sounds like what one of my z-axis motors was doing and it was a bad motor, but I wouldn't think a bad motor would only turn in one direction and not the other. Is the hobbed pulley (what's the right name) somehow binding in the part when trying to turn in one direction? If you were to loosen the set screws enough, will the motor turn in both directions?
Re: Extruder feed problem
I've also been having issues with extrusion. I've been trying to track down if any gcode settings are the culprit. I printed the gears from the gcode file provided and even though it took 6.5 hours it worked completely well. With files I've sliced myself, I've never had anything print for more than about an hour and a half before problems start occurring, but most of the time problems occur much sooner. All of this has been with the same roll of filament and temp settings.
Here are a few differences that might be significant, but I don't know.
The 4th line after the "; Filament gcode" says G1 E-0.80000 F2100.00000 in the file I sliced, but G1 E-1.50000 F2100.00000 in the supplied gcode. I googled it and I think it has to do with filament flow rate, but I think the f2100 is the flow rate and they're both the same. What's the significance of the .8 vs. 1.5? The same .8 vs. 1.5 shows up 3 lines later (basically repeating the line from above). Then way down at the end of the files, the commented settings show a retract length of .8 in my file and 1.5 in the stock file.
Are these differences important? I feel like they're distances, and I see no reason they should be different, unless they've determined the .8 version is better (I'm using the prusa slicer).
Re: Extruder feed problem
I found a blob of something in the heat break after disassembling the extruder and hotend. I think it might be a piece of ptfe, but with it removed, the extruder seems to be the best it's ever been.
Re: Extruder feed problem
I think i have figured out what goes wrong as the root cause: Partial cable break in the cables to the extruder stepper motor.
For full explanation see: https://shop.prusa3d.com/forum/original-prusa-i3-mk2-f23/baffling-problems-under-the-microscope-t4731-s20.html#p43588
Re: Extruder feed problem
To MrMik:
I replaced the whole assembly provided by Prusa ( http://shop.prusa3d.com/en/mk2-spare-parts/120-e3d-v61-assembled-hotend.html ), i.e. the heater, temp sensor, heatsink, nozzle and ptfe pipe... but no way to get my part printed.
One new thing, in case experts from Prusa glance from time to time at this forum and may understand the problem we are all facing: I printed the same part in ABS, just changing the filament type in slic3r, all other parameters kept unchanged, and it printed correctly. The only problem is that ABS is a little softer than PLA and thus my part is not rigid enough...
I printed since then 10 other small parts in ABS with no problem.
I'm just really scared having to change back to PLA...
BR
JYL
But you did not replace the stepper motor cables!
See: https://shop.prusa3d.com/forum/original-prusa-i3-mk2-f23/baffling-problems-under-the-microscope-t4731-s20.html#p43588
Re: Extruder feed problem
Hi Guys,
I finished building a kit last weekend. I could print a few prints (full 3d benchy with no problems) with Prusa Silver PLA (from SD....) and then on my third print the extruder motor started stuttering/clicking, with irregular extrusion, and then no extrusion at all.
I searched all the forums, and this seems to be the thread with the most similar symptoms.
Already cleaned and nozzle, cold pulled, but I don't see any clogging.
I tried switching to ABS, and it printed OK again for 1 print. The next one started showing the same problems, as with PLA.
Filament loads OK with no stutters which is weird.
Today I tried printing from Pronterface instead of printing from the SD. Same file I had sliced with the Prusa Slic3r.
I printed OK in both PLA and ABS....both times!!! No issues, no stuttering, no clicking.
Can anyone point me in the right direction: what would be the difference between printing the same G-code from SD or from Pronterface....where can I debug this? It seems a software issue....I'm running 3.0.12 firmware on the MK2S
Re: Extruder feed problem
I also seem to be having a similar issue. I just replaced the Y axis bearings to igus one and during this process I didn't go anywhere near the extruded, prior to this, prints were perfect. I'm wondering if it's actually an expansion of the filament while I had it put aside. Vids below highlighting the issue:
Re: Extruder feed problem
It's also worth noting that if I extrude manually via settings>move axis>extrude- it's absolutely fine, I extruded 500 and not a problem. As soon as I ran the v2 calibration or any other print it started happening again and I get these blobs on the printed filament before it printing hair thin. Pic attached shows this. Afterwards I extruded 200 manually again and once more it was fine. At one I point I moved the Z axis all the way to the top and the filament snapped so I'm wondering if my filament is just goosed?
Re: Extruder feed problem, is it the SD card?
Hi,
Mi calibration looked exactly like that. Manual extrusion works OK, Filament loading works OK, Bed calibration is OK. I started thinking it was the filament so I switched to ASA but same problem. I am running the latest firmware.
The weird thing is my problem was corrected, totally, by printing from Pronterface instead of from the SD card. So far no one can explain it to me.
Have you tried this?
It's also worth noting that if I extrude manually via settings>move axis>extrude- it's absolutely fine, I extruded 500 and not a problem. As soon as I ran the v2 calibration or any other print it started happening again and I get these blobs on the printed filament before it printing hair thin. Pic attached shows this. Afterwards I extruded 200 manually again and once more it was fine. At one I point I moved the Z axis all the way to the top and the filament snapped so I'm wondering if my filament is just goosed?