Help in decision making and purchase advice  

As low as possible minimum layer height

This suggests some very unusual special constraints; what are you trying to do?

Cheerio,

RE: Help in decision making and purchase advice

My printers are all Prusa and i was a first day preorder for the 5H XL. Now if all you want is a large volume printer with an enclosure (needed for ASA) then im not sure that the cost for the XL justifies it. A lot will argue with me but the fact remains that there are out there decent large scale printers with a fraction of the cost. If the XL 's enclosure was included in the price maybe. Now there are some additional things to consider though.

Do you need an out of the box tools or something that you can work with, assemble it and tinker with it. If is the latter then you can check vorons that have tool changing options, large scale, a huge community and decent pricing. BUT it needs a lot of work on your part before actually start printing. If its a ready to work tool you want then prusa is the only choice i can thing of if you need more than 2 toolheads. Up to two you can check for idex printers. If single head is enough along with prusa you have other companies with decent machines.

As much as i like Prusa , not all of their line up is beginner friendly. MK3 was really good in that aspect since it was based on the already excellent mk2 but mmu2S was horrible and XL still waits for polishing out some design problems. SLS1 is OK but really overpriced for what it is. Dont misunderstand me, i love my XL. I mean the tool changing is REALLY a game changer. I dont think i would go for a new printer without that option. ASA with PETG supports or PETG with PLA. Excellent! But im not so sure that i would buy it just for the volume. They fixed a lot of bugs and design issues but still we have the occasional USB failure, and some other TRULY MINOR for me, but still there,  issues that should be already polished out. I mean the usb buffering was a lousy option and slow wifi connection the luck of fan on the board cover (i live in cyprus with 40 degrees summer and this causes issues, not everyone leaves in a cold climate), the extruder failures (which where actually solved NOT by prusa but in this forum from the community) etc.

Also Prusa really had some wonderful innovations on their printer. The load cell gives very good first layer, and their modular heat bed is a nice approach. Im not sure though how it fairs against other technologies like lidar because i didn't use them.

For European manufacturer. If that is really an option concerning "politics" (sorry if its the wrong way to word it, i just cant find the proper phraseology for this) then you limit your self as far as manufacturers are concerned. If its a matter of shipping and tax costs now a lot of non EU companies have outlets in EU and you can check them. Personally i don't bother with stuff like "NO is Chinese made" etc,  since all the electronics on my SLS1 and MK3S/mmu2s where probably manufactured in China. The same goes for my car batteries, mobile phone, pc and most of my electrical devices. So if im concerned just with 3d printers that makes me a bit hypocritical.

Lastly but not least, support. The chat support is really good if you have a bit of patience and if the issue is easily solvable (i.e. component failure). If they recognize that is a component issue and its under warranty you get a replacement part without going through hell. Im truly satisfied with that aspect. Now on the other hand if its something outside the chat's support script and needs escalation to an email support then welcome to a rather slow process. You wait for days and in my case most of the times i had to send "friendly reminders" to get a response. But after this long .. long....long process if the error was a printers fault then again you get a replacement part which is a huge PLUS. I know because a lot of companies out there tend to cheap out.

All in all if you have the cash and want to start with a 2T enclosed XL ... well ... you are going to probably love it.

RE: Help in decision making and purchase advice

Hi there!

First of all, thank you for your swift replies! 😊

@diem: Currently, my goal is to produce small decorative pieces with some added functionality. My question about accuracy and layer height stems from wondering if I’m heading in the wrong direction since printer XYZ is said to be more precise. However, from my research so far, it seems that most well-recognized brands offer similar accuracy, provided they’re used correctly.

@tsamisa: My wife actually suggested the Voron because it would help me really "know my printer," especially when it comes to troubleshooting or upgrading with additional print heads and other modifications.

To summarize:I don’t think I’m intimidated by the build process of the Voron. However, after that initial phase (whether it’s a Voron, a partially assembled XL, or another model), I want a reliable workhorse that doesn’t require constant tinkering to keep running.

Of course, I also value a large print volume and the accuracy mentioned earlier. And yes, I can definitely see the appeal of adding 3–4 print heads within the first year, once I’ve gotten some experience under my belt! 😄

So, for now, the question seems to boil down to this: Do I want to build everything myself (possibly with some help from my electrical engineer brother), or pay "a little" extra for the XL, sparing me the effort but also missing out on the "get to know your printer from the inside out" phase?

Regarding European manufacturers: I’m aware that some parts are inevitably made in China, but I do value the privacy and consumer protection laws in the EU, which may be taken more seriously by European companies. For example, the issue with Bambu Lab ( https://www.tomshardware.com/3d-printing/bambu-lab-security-update-will-remove-orcaslicers-access) made me think twice—even though they eventually reversed the decision.

That said, I’m still open to other suggestions and greatly appreciate the support and openness you’ve already provided!

RE: Help in decision making and purchase advice

If you go down the voron approach you can check something like stealthburner or dragonburner and similar products as multihead soluti0ns. Im not sure how well they behave since multitool needs good calibration.

Currently, my goal is to produce small decorative pieces with some added functionality. My question about accuracy and layer height stems from wondering if I’m heading in the wrong direction since printer XYZ is said to be more precise.

The limits of FDM printing are dictated by physics and the MK2 generation of printers are/were capable of prints that hit those limits.  Since then all 'improvements' have been about recreating that accuracy with greater ease and faster.  If you need greater precision then filament printers are not the answer.

I currently run a MK3 and a 5h XL but I have also designed for the granddaughter of a fishing buddy who got a 'toymaking printer' for her birthday - it builds about 8cm cube - but the quality in PLA is indistinguishable.

Whilst the XL is capable of 'small decorative pieces' it is intended for larger work and mine is mostly used for practical stuff, mostly domestic but including light engineering parts, many for boatbuilding but increasingly for classic car spares.  The XL has given zero problems that were not obviously my own fault (trying to print TPU at PETG settings because I forgot which head was loaded with what and then overriding the warning was the messiest) and has been a true workhorse ... but it's very damp sensitive and you MUST dry all filaments before use.

European manufacturer.

Yes, it looks like there is going to be some sort of trade war so sourcing spares from US manufacturers is going to be prohibitive and probably as bad in the other direction for US users.   Many European manufacturers may even not bother with US sales for a few years if big tarriffs are applied.

the issue with Bambu Lab ... even though they eventually reversed the decision.

Read it carefully, it's more a rewording than a retraction.  This time I assume the Chinese governement are obliging them to route traffic through servers they can monitor and possibly they will insist on them installing backdoors in the machines' software to snoop from inside otherwise protected networks.

I'm not going to suggest a printer but I will suggest an additional purchase criterion - waste - if you are going with multimaterial or multicolour printing check how much filament is purged and wasted at each filament change.

Cheerio,

RE:

I have experience from two MK3's for years. Now for work we got XL and gotta say I'm getting really f'n disappointed. It's like I've bought prototype machine. We got the build yourself kit with enclosure. First two test prints were excellent and I was starting to think this is a solid machine. But now already on third printing day I honestly can't recommend XL publicly to anyone. Second day we noticed that CoreXY part (note: ready assembled assembly from Prusa!) and there's quite a bit of rattling coming from left end. I don't know if it's idler assembly or what, but it's very loud constant rattling. I really wouldn't like to disassemble printer to see what it is. It's not affecting print quality yet, but I'm quite confident it's going to be issue very soon. PLA and PETG test were fine. Then tried ABS-T White bought from Prusa and got like 10 filament not detected errors. Had to abort print like three times and tried to calibrate sensors again and eventually after s-tons of hassle managed to push one simple part out. Thought that maybe the spool had moisture or something and tried fresh unopened spool and same sh*t again. Ok maybe there's something iffy with that filament, gotta try to get some new ASA/ABS spools and re-try that, but these did print just fine on good ol' MK3's? But PLA/PETG seem to be fine...UNTIL... you run out of filament. Printer stops like it should and ejects filament. Except it fucking doesn't. That pos filament sensor that has been assembled at Prusa is so friggin tight ass that extruder rattles for second without being able to push filament back out. I've now tried is it four times to run out of filament and _every single effin' time_ I have to disconnect the what is that filament tube called in English, anyway have to disconnect it from extruder, open extruder latching and pull filament out of machine from extruder end. Always. Ok I can start the print again after this fiddling and f'n around, but then... I already trashed one part cause there isn't still in 2025 any ready solution where printer would wipe nozzle before starting print. Nope. It just pulls the oozing string straight into your print potentially causing problems. Now ok, I can live with these, barely, but it's royal pain in the ass and it seems like it's going to be un-necessarily hard to print high temp filament, cause of this need to open enclosure and get that temperature shift in it. Oh and I was quite disappointed to notice that enclosure has obviously fan with changing fan speed, but there isn't any settings anywhere to target enclosure to like 35°C or something like that.

All-in-all. Not happy at all. Hard pass for XL. I was getting exited to upgrade my home MK3S with Core, but hell no. I'm going to wait long and maybe even then do something I wouldn't like to do and get Bambu if I hear any negative things about Core. 

Let's face it. XL is very expensive single extruder printer and I at least personally expected it to function really well. Now it's like participating in some beta test 😒

To original post. I'd recommended looking out that Creality's what was it K2 Max or something? I've had one Creality years ago and it was quite meh printer and cause of that we skipped that option at work. But I'm now getting serious vibes we shouldn't have done that...

RE: Help in decision making and purchase advice

My XL has been great.  Thousands of hours of flawless prints, with PETG, ASA, and PCCF. 

I will say it's not a printer for beginners because there are many challenges associated with large FDM prints that you don't have with the smaller bed slingers. 

I'm not sure what the previous poster issues are, but I've not experienced it.

I would definitely recommend an enclosure for ASA to help with warping and because of the fumes.  ASA has a tendency to warp, and this can be particularly challenging on large parts. 

Good luck in your decision.

RE: Help in decision making and purchase advice

Posted by: @brian-12

My XL has been great.  Thousands of hours of flawless prints, with PETG, ASA, and PCCF. 

I will say it's not a printer for beginners because there are many challenges associated with large FDM prints that you don't have with the smaller bed slingers. 

I'm not sure what the previous poster issues are, but I've not experienced it.

I would definitely recommend an enclosure for ASA to help with warping and because of the fumes.  ASA has a tendency to warp, and this can be particularly challenging on large parts. 

Good luck in your decision.

Has your filament loading/unloading worked flawlessly every single time? Our machine has worked a single time. No matter if PLA, PETG or ABS. All bought from Prusa and never had issues with their filaments.

RE: Help in decision making and purchase advice

@pw Yes it works just fine except for 1 occasion.  1 time it didn't recognize that that the filament was unloaded when it was.  This was in the middle of a print after the filament ran out. I suspect the ball bearing in the filament sensor got some debris in it

I followed the Prusa troubleshooting instructions for this exact problem and ended up blowing air into a small hole on the top of the Nextruder and that fixed it.  I was able to get filament loaded and resume the print. I suspect the ball bearing in the filament sensor got some debris in it and made it stick.  This has only happened to me 1x and I've easily done over 100 filament changes, probably hundreds, but that's not something I keep track of. 

I suspect in your case if the extruder is rattling on retraction for a filament change, that there might be excessive resistance for some reason behind the extruder.   The rattling you hear is likely the extruder motor skipping steps because it can't move the filament. 

I suppose there could also be an alignment issue of some kind in the Nextruder itself, but without being at the machine to diagnose I'm just guessing.  It's definitely not normal though.

One cause of problems with the spooljoin function are the bent ends of filament used to hook the end into the spools of some manufacturers - the strong grip can cause underextrusion as the printer drags them free. If you check in with the printer up to a couple of hours before the run-out you can snip off the bent end before it causes trouble.

Cheerio

RE: Help in decision making and purchase advice

Posted by: @diem

One cause of problems with the spooljoin function are the bent ends of filament used to hook the end into the spools of some manufacturers - the strong grip can cause underextrusion as the printer drags them free. If you check in with the printer up to a couple of hours before the run-out you can snip off the bent end before it causes trouble.

Cheerio

When it first happened I thought that was exactly the case. But since then I've tried to snip filament straight and even in 45 degree angle and it still can't push filament back from extruder to first sensor assembly. Though I yesterday had long conversation with support and they said they'll send me a new assembly and got the impression that it doesn't void warranty if I want to disassemble it myself. Actually got even link to its printed parts, which I might do, being small part after all. Anyway right after this post I'll begin to disassemble it see if there's like somekind of debris in the mechanism. It's not normal, like I mentioned in support conversation it takes like at least two times force to push filament even trough the sensor assy than it takes to push through MK3's apparently similar ball magnet assembly.

RE: Help in decision making and purchase advice

I think I managed to correct everything that was in the printer. I opened up the first filament sensor and took a look at it. There were already quite heavy filament marks on the channel so I took 2mm drill bit and carefully used it to chamfer it's edges just a tiny bit and used countersunk tool to very, very slighty chamfer PTFE tubings ends as they seemed to be cut straight to prevent filament catching there. Then I noticed that magnet/ball assemly was blocking visually about more than half of the hole looking through so I pulled sensor part out and assembled it again using virtually no torque at all and I think now sensors are blocking about maybe 1/3 of diameter of the filament hole looking through the assembly. Had to move sensor plate again very slightly to make it sense correctly. Status changed, but calibration still gave error sensing filament for some reason. After these it now seems to work better and even my first try I took thrown out PLA that had been out of spool for about day and coiled into very tight, maybe 10cm roll. I didn't notice end of that filament being very twisted until it was too late it got pulled into machine and when filament sensor triggered, during ejecting heard quite rough click and thought it was caught inside sensor, but it did eject correctly. So I think that's sorted.

Corexy assembly needed a lot of fiddling around. I noticed X motor (? Left one anyway) had its pulley slightly too low. Opened up grub screws and moved it millimeter or two and noise seems to be gone now. However when I tried the homing tower test initial print looked really bad. Tried to tune belt tightness with Prusas application, but it's very bad. I couldn't get it work realiably at all even trying multiple phones and even BT microphone from Peltor headset. I'm not sure but I think latest Androids have some background noise suppression system that renders the application method useless with them. So tuned them by "feel" and first couple tries input shaper calibration failed, but in the end got it through and I think print quality changed to vastly better on second try. Picture attached.

So in the end things are now looking good for our XL. But very unfortunate that it had so many issues on assemblies from Prusa.

RE: Help in decision making and purchase advice

Actually nope. Still having issues. Got printer sorted out Friday and eventually got really good result testing it. Left it to print one set of parts that had worked really well. Now Monday morning took parts out and tried to run another batch of parts and leveling issues where printer even scratched sheet and didn't get it to work. Now according to Prusa support it has bad load cell. Waiting for parts now. I hope this will now finally get into production or I'll never ever going to buy another Prusa printer.  10h now into troubleshooting and likely few more to disassemble printhead when parts arrive. Luckily I get paid for this. My employer though isn't amused at all and likely never going to order Prusa printers again and tbh I can't recommend the brand anymore either. This is just too much, WAY too much of an hassle for printer of this price tag... 🙄