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Will the XL have a heated enclosure option?  

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Hangs4Fun
(@hangs4fun)
Eminent Member
Will the XL have a heated enclosure option?

Not just the ability to close up the enclosure and trap heat, but a heated enclosure with temp regulation.  Now that the Stratasys patent has run out on heated enclosures, I was hoping to see more and more heated enclosures for higher temp and trickier material printing.

with this would come the need for upgrades on many components depending on the temp of the enclosure (printed parts, bearings, cabling, etc).  So if this is going to be an option, hopefully they have prepared the components that would be subjected to the higher temps.

At the very least it looks like they are thinking about enclosing it to trap some of the heat from the huge bed.  Interested to see how they enclose in the top to allow for 5 tool heads and the upward bending cable bundles.

Posted : 19/11/2021 9:42 pm
3Delight
(@3delight)
Moderator
RE: Will the XL have a heated enclosure option?

More details about accessories will be released later, keep watching...

Posted : 19/11/2021 10:29 pm
Chris Laudermilk
(@chris-laudermilk)
Estimable Member
RE: Will the XL have a heated enclosure option?

It seemed like in this interview he indicated ther ewould be.

Mini+ (kit) - Revo Micro | Antler Cooling | WiFi (4.4.0RC1)

Posted : 20/11/2021 9:07 pm
Hangs4Fun liked
Hangs4Fun
(@hangs4fun)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Will the XL have a heated enclosure option?

I saw that interview, but don't recall a mention of a heated enclosure.  An enclosure yes, an enclosure that traps some of the heat generated during printing, yes... but a heated enclosure where you have an additional heater and temperature regulation, such that despite what is happening with the printing process you can maintain a certain temperature inside (ex like your oven).  I've been running an insulated enclosure and can get up to 50*C, but I can't make it do that without trapping heat from printing.  Plus I am thinking 70-90*C for the heated enclosure, and possibly an annealing option (so I can stop using our oven at the house at night to anneal my parts, LOL)

Posted by: @chris-laudermilk

It seemed like in this interview he indicated ther ewould be.

 

Posted : 20/11/2021 11:13 pm
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
RE: Will the XL have a heated enclosure option?

I would be surprised if that is an option.  

Posted by: @hangs4fun

I saw that interview, but don't recall a mention of a heated enclosure.  An enclosure yes, an enclosure that traps some of the heat generated during printing, yes... but a heated enclosure where you have an additional heater and temperature regulation, such that despite what is happening with the printing process you can maintain a certain temperature inside (ex like your oven).  I've been running an insulated enclosure and can get up to 50*C, but I can't make it do that without trapping heat from printing.  Plus I am thinking 70-90*C for the heated enclosure, and possibly an annealing option (so I can stop using our oven at the house at night to anneal my parts, LOL)

Posted by: @chris-laudermilk

It seemed like in this interview he indicated ther ewould be.

 

 

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog

Posted : 21/11/2021 2:12 am
Clearview Composites
(@clearview-composites)
New Member
RE: Will the XL have a heated enclosure option?

If there are any heated enclosures to that level you'll want to expect to mod your printer to have more metal parts. The plastic parts at temp might not cut it. This would bump price in enclosure and printer mods pretty high. If price has a limit, like the majority of people, you'll need to rely on passive heating from the heat bed and electronics. This can be improved with a sealed enclosure, which again bumps the price quite a bit. Your best bet may be to take what is on the market and mod it to your spec. 🙂

Posted : 21/11/2021 4:50 pm
MileHigh3Der
(@milehigh3der)
Reputable Member
RE: Will the XL have a heated enclosure option?

A bed warmed enclosure is the best I can see.  Maybe you could put a bubble top on to help trap heat, but then the extruder will be using heated air for cooling of the heat break and the extruded material.  Maybe you could put a ‘snorkel’ on the extruder to feed cool/ambient air in, but they you are are compromising the heated chamber, unless you snorkel in and snorkel out the air to cool the hot end.  Cooling air for the material coming out of the tip is another thing.

Frankly, if you are going to do a heated chamber, I think you’d have to go with a liquid cooling system for the heat-break.  That way you aren’t adding in a lot of air.  Something like the chip/CPU coolers on PCs.

And of course all the other bits inside the Shroud of Prusa(TM) 😉 ….

Posted : 22/11/2021 6:09 pm
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
RE: Will the XL have a heated enclosure option?

Most printers will take up to 45-50C.  You just need the right 3D printed parts.  Most of my parts are PETG with some key parts being ABS, ASA, or PC Blend.  

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog

Posted : 22/11/2021 6:30 pm
Walter Witt
(@walter-witt)
Active Member
RE: Will the XL have a heated enclosure option?

I'm quite interested about the possibility of a heated print chamber, and looking closer at the 3D printing Nerd video, I've noticed some design aspects that could lend themselves to allowing that, ether as an official version, sold by Prusa (which I think is likely seeing as how they are investing heavily in printers for the commercial market), or a DIY modded version. Here's some stuff I noticed, and how I could see it working.

  • There is already a wall separating the electronics, including the motion steppers from the printing area, and there is even enough clearance to include an insulating layer in the space between the 2020 rails.
  • There are actually  very few 3D printed parts in the printing area. 2x belt idler carriages, 2x z-axis leadscrew top supports, 2x, belt clamps on the extruder carriage (there seems to be both a metal, and a 3D printed tool changer carriage in the video). These could be reprinted out of Prusa's own PC-CF filament which is good to 114C, extremely rigid, and doesn't suffer from creep issues as much as abs or nylon.
  • The 5 Toolheads are stored outside of the print area, allowing for one high temperature, probably water cooled extruder toolhead (400C+), maybe with a High Temp servo , or bowden tube. And the rest of the toolheads that aren't active can be kept cool behind a wall that comes down with an insulated lid.

So, with all that, you take out the LED strips, Put in some insulation, make an insulated lid, add some extra heaters (or maybe the big heatbed will produce enough) & circulation fans for part "cooling" and you'd probably have a printer that could be advertised for a heated chamber temperature of 100C, or DIY pushed to 115C with some other tweaks/mods/upgrades.

Now, I should at this point mention that the most experience I have with a heated chamber sofar is putting a cardboard box over my mini, so if anyone can see any major flaws in this, please let me know. cause I'm excited for the possibility of printing large parts with high performance filaments.

Posted : 24/11/2021 1:27 am
burtronix liked
Hangs4Fun
(@hangs4fun)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Will the XL have a heated enclosure option?

I anneal the PC+CF I print for my printers in heated enclosures.  The Tg on that manufacturers PC+CF is 143*C (I think Prusament PC+CF can get to 130*C when annealed).  I basically just built a homemade annealing system and use large pans filled with sand.  After some trial and error, found the sweet spot on it.  Then I just get all of the printable parts for the printer, and reprint them with my process and swap them out.  The other things can be pvc coatings on wires (though they are usually slightly above the 143*C I get the parts to).  And like someone else mentioned watching heat creep on your heatbreak, though I haven't seen that.

My point though on this post was that, at $4,000 for an XL with 5 tool heads, maybe they have higher end printed parts that could survive a heated enclosure, so that if they were to sell that option (for more $$$ of course), you wouldn't have to first upgrade a crap ton of parts inside the space. My guess is no on that and at best they will offer an enclosure that can "trap some heat".  

Keep in mind there is some really cool polymers you can start printing once you have a heated enclosure and a 200*C hotbed or higher (and they haven't released that detail yet either, so I'm guessing slightly better than a MK3S+ at maybe 150*C on the hotbed?

Worst case scenario, I will keep solving the heated enclosure my self, since the Stratasys patent ran out, I figured we would have long before now seen them more often

Posted : 24/11/2021 4:07 am
Hangs4Fun
(@hangs4fun)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Will the XL have a heated enclosure option?

Just a few things to 

Posted by: @hangs4fun

I anneal the PC+CF I print for my printers in heated enclosures.  The Tg on that manufacturers PC+CF is 143*C (I think Prusament PC+CF can get to 130*C when annealed).  I basically just built a homemade annealing system and use large pans filled with sand.  After some trial and error, found the sweet spot on it.  Then I just get all of the printable parts for the printer, and reprint them with my process and swap them out.  The other things can be pvc coatings on wires (though they are usually slightly above the 143*C I get the parts to).  And like someone else mentioned watching heat creep on your heatbreak, though I haven't seen that.

My point though on this post was that, at $4,000 for an XL with 5 tool heads, maybe they have higher end printed parts that could survive a heated enclosure, so that if they were to sell that option (for more $$$ of course), you wouldn't have to first upgrade a crap ton of parts inside the space. My guess is no on that and at best they will offer an enclosure that can "trap some heat".  

Keep in mind there is some really cool polymers you can start printing once you have a heated enclosure and a 200*C hotbed or higher (and they haven't released that detail yet either, so I'm guessing slightly better than a MK3S+ at maybe 150*C on the hotbed?

Worst case scenario, I will keep solving the heated enclosure my self, since the Stratasys patent ran out, I figured we would have long before now seen them more often

Don't forget that Prusament PC+CF, when properly annealed can reached more like 130°C.

When you say "print area", with a heated enclosure all interior space is now of concern, as the heat will make its way until stopped by something.  Think oven, if you have the door cracked heat will escape and start heating areas around where it is cracked which makes the oven less efficient and harder or impossible to maintain the desired temp.  

Also along those lines, I don't think the tool heads can be out for the camber area.  A mechanism to allow for the tool heads to pass in an out of a heated area would be impossible.  So even stored they too would have to be in the heated area.

I'm thinking to get 100°C, 110°C, and possibly higher, the entire inside of the of the XL (including a new see through Lexan top hood covering the tool heads) would need to be created.  And then anything inside of the "walls" would need to be able to handle those temps.  

To look at how a heated enclosure would be designed go look at a Stratasys (the original patent holder of heated enclosure that kept the rest of the world from having the for decades)

Posted : 29/12/2021 1:46 pm
MileHigh3Der
(@milehigh3der)
Reputable Member
RE: Will the XL have a heated enclosure option?

I really hope that they have a PC+/-CF parts option at launch, or at least make the STLs available to print the parts.  There is an assembly version option for $500?  Do I remember that correctly?  It looks like I skipped the assembled option.  There are always updates and repairs to the printers- better to have an innate feel for the printer that comes with having had to assemble it- and maybe upgrade the materials on parts.

Posted : 30/12/2021 1:11 am
Mark_T
(@mark_t)
Eminent Member
RE:
Posted by: @milehigh3der

I really hope that they have a PC+/-CF parts option at launch, or at least make the STLs available to print the parts.

I do recall Joe commenting that there will be PC parts on the XL, but not all of them, so things like the screen mount and other non-structural elements would not be in PC.

It is a start for you at least...

Posted : 30/12/2021 4:09 pm
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
RE: Will the XL have a heated enclosure option?

I saw that.  

Posted by: @mark_t
Posted by: @milehigh3der

I really hope that they have a PC+/-CF parts option at launch, or at least make the STLs available to print the parts.

I do recall Joe commenting that there will be PC parts on the XL, but not all of them, so things like the screen mount and other non-structural elements would not be in PC.

It is a start for you at least...

I saw that.  I also listed to the video where they said that some of STL release will be delayed to avoid clones.  

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog

Posted : 30/12/2021 4:44 pm
burtronix
(@burtronix)
Estimable Member
RE: Will the XL have a heated enclosure option?

 

Posted by: @milehigh3der

A bed warmed enclosure is the best I can see.  Maybe you could put a bubble top on to help trap heat, but then the extruder will be using heated air for cooling of the heat break and the extruded material.  Maybe you could put a ‘snorkel’ on the extruder to feed cool/ambient air in, but they you are are compromising the heated chamber, unless you snorkel in and snorkel out the air to cool the hot end.  Cooling air for the material coming out of the tip is another thing.

Frankly, if you are going to do a heated chamber, I think you’d have to go with a liquid cooling system for the heat-break.  That way you aren’t adding in a lot of air.  Something like the chip/CPU coolers on PCs.

And of course all the other bits inside the Shroud of Prusa(TM) 😉 ….

There are several "snorkel" design patents for both heating & cooling various things in FDM printing, & I don't think many of them have expired yet.

Whatever you find to do with your hands, do with all your might!

Posted : 04/01/2022 7:57 pm
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
RE: Will the XL have a heated enclosure option?

I still think passive heat from the bed is the best your gonna do.  

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog

Posted : 05/01/2022 1:22 am
Hangs4Fun
(@hangs4fun)
Eminent Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Will the XL have a heated enclosure option?

 

Posted by: @milehigh3der

I really hope that they have a PC+/-CF parts option at launch, or at least make the STLs available to print the parts.  There is an assembly version option for $500?  Do I remember that correctly?  It looks like I skipped the assembled option.  There are always updates and repairs to the printers- better to have an innate feel for the printer that comes with having had to assemble it- and maybe upgrade the materials on parts.

I hear you, but dang a 5 tool head Core-XY install of that size is likely to be 40 plus hours ("ain't nobody got time fuh dat").

But yeah, kind of makes me nervous for anything to go wrong.  I went with an assumed one for my first one.  If I add another one (and I have the time to spare), I might try assembling myself.  I usually can complete an MK3S+ assembly in about 5-5.5 hours.  But a 5 tool head core-xy is not for something to tackle lightly IMHO

Posted : 07/01/2022 12:06 am
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