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[Closed] Bye bye, Prusa  

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SeattleDavid
(@seattledavid)
Estimable Member
Bye bye, Prusa

Dear Prusa Customer Support:

I had planned on purchasing three of your XL5 printers.

The first one arrived and failed catastrophically. Worse was the lack of customer service.

I made very clear when I purchased the printer that I was not a “guinea pig” type of customer and I only wanted the printer if it was working and reliable.

I am the type of customer that is willing to pay extra to have the best. Until recently, Prusa has been the best.

But now Prusa isn’t the best in terms of reliability or print quality or speed or customer service. Are you the best at anything?

So please cancel my remaining pre-orders and refund my deposit amounts. Here are the order numbers:

  • 1696290xxx
  • 1639291xxx

I sincerely wish Prusa well. I have enjoyed using your machines. But if you are to remain a leader in this business you have to get your act together. You are now riding on your reputation and that doesn’t last long with a second rate product line and third rate customer service.

I am frequently a bellwether customer for companies. That I am switching to Bambu Labs when I return to the U.S. next year should serve as a wake-up call.

I’ll close by saying that you could have bought a little bit of customer loyalty by offering to refund the return shipping and even the $175 in non-refundable duties that I lost. Of course, you didn’t have to, but the printer failure wasn’t my fault, the lack of promised technical support wasn’t my fault, and the many months of delays in delivering what was promised wasn’t my fault. The difference is whether I am a hostile customer or one who felt fairly treated but unlucky.

Bye bye.

David

(This is a copy of my email to Prusa Customer Service)

Posted : 03/12/2023 3:51 pm
kengineer liked
Extra Fox
(@extra-fox)
Estimable Member
RE: Bye bye, Prusa

Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.

Aaron

Posted : 03/12/2023 7:03 pm
Netpackrat, jF, Georg and 5 people liked
IPIND 3D
(@ipind-3d)
Estimable Member
RE: Bye bye, Prusa
Posted by: @seattledavid

I made very clear when I purchased the printer that I was not a “guinea pig” type of customer and I only wanted the printer if it was working and reliable.

Yet you CHOSE to be an early adopting of a bleeding edge release.

I am frequently a bellwether customer for companies. That I am switching to Bambu Labs when I return to the U.S. next year should serve as a wake-up call.

Good story.

You are now riding on your reputation and that doesn’t last long with a second rate product line and third rate customer service.

Good luck with Bambu's inconsistent, mediocre, email only based, business hour multi-day to multiweek response time support.

Bye bye.

David

This isn't an airport. There is no need to announce your departure.

Posted : 03/12/2023 8:59 pm
Netpackrat, jF, Georg and 3 people liked
SeattleDavid
(@seattledavid)
Estimable Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Bye bye, Prusa

Yet you CHOSE to be an early adopting of a bleeding edge release.

I had numerous very clear email communications with Customer Support when my queue position came up, making clear that I didn't wish to receive the XL5 until it was fully vetted, functional, and reliable. I was explicit that I didn't want to be a tester. I indicated I had no need for the printer until March 2024, and that shipping it probably should wait until then. I was in no hurry and just wanted it to work out of the box.

Customer Service replied that the XL5 had been thoroughly tested and that was why it was so late, the XL5 was doing well in the field, had been shipping for months and customers were consistently happy. They assured me that I would be happy with it. I again indicated it might just be better to wait until March, but they chose to ship it. It was their choice, not mine.

I copied this Good Bye letter that I sent to Customer Service (which I thought was politely written, but direct) to this forum because I thought it was genuinely useful to others considering a purchase or who were within their return periods. And, perhaps somebody at Prusa outside Customer Service might see it and bring it to the attention of management because really, it was as much a failure of customer service as it was of the machine.

As for the "there is no need to announce your departure, this isn't an Airport" and "don't let the door hit your butt" comments, I think those are a further indication that I am no longer whatever type of customer Prusa is welcoming. The forum response would indicate that for me to be a proper Prusa customer I should not discuss company failures. I was not of the impression that customers who were burned by Prusa didn't have the right to make "the emperor has no clothes" postings. To have integrity, both sides of the coin need to be shown. Sometimes, it is better to just leave a  legitimate negative posting alone.

In closing: My understanding was that the reason people paid the "Prusa Premium" was because their products were the best, most reliable, excellently supported. Now I'm told that I should be sympathetic to their failure to deliver what they promised or to provide capable support. I am not.

 

 

Posted : 04/12/2023 12:42 am
kengineer liked
Acht
 Acht
(@acht)
Trusted Member
RE:

 

Posted by: @seattledavid

 My understanding was that the reason people paid the "Prusa Premium" was because their products were the best, most reliable, excellently supported.

 

 

Well they are. You choose to buy a product for advanced users. No other manufacturer has released a Toolchanging Printer for Hobbyists yet and for good reason (it is hard). Well e3d kind of did, but the XL is much more reliable and also AFAIK the e3d isn't sold anymore.

 

So yes toolchanging Printers are hard. New products for advanced users require more than machines like the MK4. 

If you did not know that It seems you didn't do your due diligence. 

By the way Prusa isn't a Consulting company. Buy the product or don't if you are not ready for an advanced machine, then do not buy it.

 

Also stop whining on this forum please nobody here has anything to do with it.

Posted : 04/12/2023 1:02 am
Georg, Razor, IPIND 3D and 1 people liked
SeattleDavid
(@seattledavid)
Estimable Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Bye bye, Prusa

Also stop whining on this forum please nobody here has anything to do with it.

And what gives you the right to make hostile postings that are merely attacking, while telling others to not make postings?

OK I get it. I actually do. I'm not in the clique. I'm not supposed to expect things to be as advertised. And, I shouldn't be upset when my printer never worked because it was an "advanced" product.

But really, why does the forum feel the need to dogpile an upset customer, rather than just ignoring the legitimate critical posting? (Rhetorical question. No reply necessary.) This has become a pretty hostile, prusa-defensive place.

 

Posted : 04/12/2023 1:10 am
BaconFase
(@baconfase)
Estimable Member
RE: Bye bye, Prusa

Only thing I legitimacy don't understand is if you actually wanted a working tool changer printer then why was a clearly broken machine not easily and quickly warrantied rather than refunded months later.

 

I've only recently come back to the forums after receiving my XL and all I've read from you is blogging and shilling for Bambu. If I hadn't seen the couple videos you posted up I would have 100% believed you were nothing more than an advertisement bot.

 

.Printables.

MK3S MMU2S, XL-5T

Posted : 04/12/2023 1:34 am
Netpackrat, nhand42, Razor and 2 people liked
IPIND 3D
(@ipind-3d)
Estimable Member
RE: Bye bye, Prusa

 

Posted by: @seattledavid

Customer Service replied that the XL5 had been thoroughly tested and that was why it was so late, the XL5 was doing well in the field, had been shipping for months and customers were consistently happy. They assured me that I would be happy with it. I again indicated it might just be better to wait until March, but they chose to ship it. It was their choice, not mine.

No, YOU chose to have it shipped. You completed the order. Prusa did not force you to.

Given the date on your customs receipt, you finalised your order about 1 month after the 5 tool head started shipping.

As with any launch of new technology, early adopters accept there will be issues and work through them. Those that don't want to deal with them sit back and wait 6 months to a year to see what issues are found and what solutions are proffered. To think otherwise is just naive.

Again, look at Bambu - many early adopters went through hell and it was to be expected.

There is no 'clique'. We constantly and openly discuss Prusa's failures in here, but generally, people don't do it with a 'knives out' or 'Bambu's better' mentaility.

You have been incredibly offensive to a number of extremely well respected and helpful members throughout your time in this forum. These are people who give their time and knowledge for free.

You on the other hand have consitently contributed little that could be considered of any useful consequence. Instead, you have soap boxed yourself to ad nauseum and made out like you've had to slog up hill both ways.

The "dogpiling" as you call it, which has been anything but; is by your own hand. People see through your rhetoric for what it is, call it out and have said that enough is enough.

Take the hint. Be respectful or move on.

Posted : 04/12/2023 1:43 am
Netpackrat, nhand42, Georg and 2 people liked
SeattleDavid
(@seattledavid)
Estimable Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Bye bye, Prusa

if you actually wanted a working tool changer printer then why was a clearly broken machine not easily and quickly warrantied rather than refunded months later.

I truly, genuinely wanted three XL5s and I put down a deposit for them. I need very much to have fast multi-color prototyping capability when I return to the U.S. in 2024.

In October I knew that I was going to be in Asia from November into early 2024. So there was no urgency for the machines. Thus, my preference to wait until March to ship them, which Customer Service agreed to do. But then they shipped them anyway, explaining that the XL5 was stable and reliable and customers were happy.

My first machine arrived two weeks before I was to leave the US. And it had numerous problems and before ever printing a 2 color job it “catastrophically” failed.

I contacted Prusa Support who was absolutely no help whatsoever but did promise than an XL Specialist would contact me via email. They didn’t. I followed up and they still didn’t. At this point I was out of time and I faced two options: either leave the dead machine to deal with in March or return it. My experience with the machine was so bad in so many different ways, and my experience with support was no better. I decided that the “handwriting was in the wall” and decided to return the printer, hoping that my other pre-orders would ship in March and would be reliable. It took Prusa five weeks to refund the first portion of my payments.

I still intended at this point to proceed with the XL machines. But a red light kept flashing in my brain that so many things had gone wrong on the XL5 purchase that it was cause for caution.

I had never heard of Bambu as of this point. I was a loyal Prusa customer with a number of their printers in my lab. But I decided to research what was out there and Bambu X1 Carbon quickly emerged as a printer that today is reliable and produces better quality prints than Prusa XL5.

At this point, like any prudent shopper I started analyzing, spending time on Bambu’s forums, watching reviews, and even sending a few inquiries to Bambu Support to see how they responded—which I will add is much faster than Prusa responds.

as I learned more I did gradually start to favor the printer that appeared to have happier customers and better print quality. But being a bit of a skeptic I did challenge what I learned and I sought out many sources hoping to find truth. One of those was Bard, which ended up giving me a bogus answer, as the Prusa forums pointed out.

While at this point I was now seriously considering Bambu I was still playing “devil's  advocate” on that decision. It’s hard to change manufacturers when I am deeply into the Prusa ecosystem. But my project in March is vitally important and I needed to get it right, I wouldn't have time to fuss.

Then an interesting thing happened: The Prusa forums became very hostile. Rather than trying to help my through my analysis and efforts to find the correct fact based decision they became personally attacking and downright rude. That would resort to “gossip” from Bard AI resulted in insulting and belittling personal comments.

That was what put me over the edge. In my mind Prusa no longer represented integrity, quality products, good customer support, or reliability. Even the forums had developed a blindness to issues and treated anybody who was less than faithful as an infidel. I felt that there was simply no longer anything for me at Prusa.

I am a letter writer and I write letters to management when I am happy and when I am not. I feel communications of both success and failure by customers is helpful to management. (Having been a CEO I always liked when a customer took time to compose their thoughts and write.)

So I wrote customer service the letter at the top of this thread and cross posted it here. My thinking was that since customer service was part of the problem, they would be unlikely to pass the letter up through channels. My posting here really could have and should have been left alone, or perhaps a few condolence and welcome back if you choose postings would have been nice. But I got “good riddance” postings instead.

Prusa has become broken from top to bottom as far as I can tell. It’s quite sad for me, because I have spent so many hours using Prusa machines non-stop usually 20+ hours a day when on projects. But it is what it is.

So now you have most of the story and I hope it makes sense to you now. I’m glad you asked rather than just jumping to incorrect conclusions.

Im not an advertising ‘bot. I am not a Bambu shill. I’m an ex-loyal Prusa customer who was quite on the fence until the past day. Now, I have made my decision.

If Prusa fixes itself then I will consider coming back. If the Bambu doesn’t turn out to be the wisest choice I’ll make a change. But right now, I can’t see many reasons for customers to buy Prusa. The announced Bambu XL may take away the last reason, so Prusa management needs to do its job.

I leave an angry, hurt ex-Prusa customer. But I am not a grudge holder. Perhaps in a year or two I’ll be back.

Posted : 04/12/2023 2:16 am
SeattleDavid
(@seattledavid)
Estimable Member
Topic starter answered:
RE:

No, YOU chose to have it shipped. You completed the order. Prusa did not force you to.

 

Please don’t make up facts.

I was in constant email contact with Prusa Customer Support. We had agreed I would finalize the order and they would hold it until March or when the printer design was very stable. We had a lot of conversation about waiting for quality. We had basically agreed to March. They then chose to ship it early and without consulting me, and I wasn’t entirely happy that they did it so early.

Posted : 04/12/2023 2:25 am
IPIND 3D
(@ipind-3d)
Estimable Member
RE:

Your arguments and statements continue to be nonsensical.

Whilst Prusa do have an ecosystem, it is completely open source and you are not locked into anything. Bambu on the other hand...   🤭 

If you knew you were going to be away for such an extended period, why did you finalise your order? There was no need to and you would have ended up getting a Rev B model, which may even be a Rev C by the time you return?

And when did Bard say the Bambu XL was announced or was being released?

Please post a link.

This post was modified 3 months ago by IPIND 3D
Posted : 04/12/2023 2:45 am
Razor and Acht liked
SeattleDavid
(@seattledavid)
Estimable Member
Topic starter answered:
RE:

I couldn’t care less about open source. It makes no sense to me. And Prusa’s newest machines are every bit as proprietary as Bambu’s.

I have had extensive conversations with Customer service. They knew I wanted a stable machine. They indicated if I finalized the order they could put it on hold and then would immediately ship when they released it at the right time. It was a way of ensuring I had a machine in March.

I never said Bard announced the Bambu XL. It’s Bambu’s CEO who pre announced it. That is, he officially confirmed it is coming and is in their development pipeline but didn’t give many specifics. He intimated it might be a fall 2024 release or could be 2025, but they wanted to make sure it released when it was ready, making a very discrete and vague jab at the Prusa XL. So really all we know is it’s coming.

Why do you insist on fighting? Your input to output ratio is very low.

Posted : 04/12/2023 3:21 am
IPIND 3D
(@ipind-3d)
Estimable Member
RE:

LOL

Your responses continue to become more and more comical.

Just stop.

This post was modified 3 months ago 2 times by IPIND 3D
Posted : 04/12/2023 3:26 am
jF, Georg and Acht liked
SeattleDavid
(@seattledavid)
Estimable Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Bye bye, Prusa

Just stop.

Hard to when you won't let me have the last word and end with an insult.

Posted : 04/12/2023 3:31 am
IPIND 3D
(@ipind-3d)
Estimable Member
RE: Bye bye, Prusa

🤣

Posted : 04/12/2023 3:32 am
jF liked
BaconFase
(@baconfase)
Estimable Member
RE: Bye bye, Prusa

Your input to output ratio is very low.

I guess that answers things.

And a clue to better pick them out easier next time too.

 

.Printables.

MK3S MMU2S, XL-5T

Posted : 04/12/2023 5:17 am
Acht
 Acht
(@acht)
Trusted Member
RE: Bye bye, Prusa

 

Posted by: @seattledavid

Just stop.

Hard to when you won't let me have the last word and end with an insult.

Exactly that is what you are here for you want to "..have the last word and end with an insult.".

-very childish!

Posted : 04/12/2023 10:06 am
Georg, jF and IPIND 3D liked
tsamisa
(@tsamisa)
Estimable Member
RE: Bye bye, Prusa

Yet you CHOSE to be an early adopting of a bleeding edge release.

First of all about this. I'm an XL5t owner along with other Prusa printers (SLS,MK3S+MMU2S. But after two years of the initial prototype and announcement i dont think it falls in the category of "early adopting". Prusa spent two years doing ... WHAT? Their excuse was to deliver a hassle free (to some reasonable extend) product. Well they didn't. I find XL to be a good product and it gets more stable with each firmware upgrade but i still have to disable crash detection if my prints have long travels and still sometimes get layer shifts etc. So for someone paying 4k for a product that its buggy more than it should maybe is a BIG-NO (and justifiable so). I stayed with this because i like the idea of a toolchanger.

On another note i often read in the posts of this forum people belittling others because they criticise prusa. This forum is not for Prusa fanboys only, Is for prusa cutomers or not,  to also express their disappointment either to blow some steam or hoping someone listens from Prusa. I remember in the long delay while i was complaining about it , especially after the release of mk4, i got responses like "if you dont like it cancel your order"  etc. So to all people that get their knicker in a twist when somebody criticizes Prusa ... get of your high horses because your opinion and unconditional love for Prusa is not the only opinion out there.

 

Posted : 04/12/2023 11:50 am
Acht
 Acht
(@acht)
Trusted Member
RE: Bye bye, Prusa

 

Posted by: @tsamisa

Yet you CHOSE to be an early adopting of a bleeding edge release.

..i dont think it falls in the category of "early adopting".

 

Well not everybody has to think that, but I think it is pretty clear here: "An early adopter or lighthouse customer is an early customer of a given company, product, or technology."

OP bought a new Product (in the first 3 Month of delivery) with a completely new technology (Toolchanger). What can be more early adopter?

If that would be the discussion here, but you and OP are twisting the truth again and again so hard, it can not be taken seriously. Also it really becomes very clear from yours and OP's other posts you want to change the view people have on Prusa vs Bamboo which makes no sense: Bamboo has the best colorswitching printer and Prusa the best tool changing printer without question.

If OP would be here to talk about weak points of the printer people would be very helpful. You can see that in a lot of other topics, because yes - the XL has problems - we all know - most people here have the machine.

Posted : 04/12/2023 12:27 pm
nhand42 and IPIND 3D liked
tsamisa
(@tsamisa)
Estimable Member
RE: Bye bye, Prusa

, but you and OP are twisting the truth again and again so hard,

Well its actually expected hard core fans to make such claims. I never had a bambu. All my 3d printers are Prusa. The fact that you find on my posts that im trying HARD to twist the truth is rather... silly (put it midly). In what post exactly did i twist the truth? As said and wrote a lot of times i have the XL i dont regret getting it, but that it has flaws a 4k machine with 2 years in production an a year delayed shouldnt have. Actually you are the type of prusa customer that solidifies the point i wanted to make

Posted : 04/12/2023 1:11 pm
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