RE: Under-extrusion or gaps at seams with input shaper settings and 5.x firmware
@_KaszpiR_ Well, remember I own two of these things, the characteristics and issues have been about the same. If you are a casual user, mostly printing PLA or PETG, you can go a long time without ever realizing any of these troubles. If you only print Ninjaflex, and try to keep your printers printing around the clock every single day...well, those are just two different things. But again, from my last post, Prusa markets the Mini for "FLEX" and for "advanced users looking to build a printing farm", even for nylon, ABS, and polycarbonate!
The Mini is a lovely machine from a great company, keep your extruder and nozzle clean, and replace the hotend PTFE if mysterious underextrusion appears, and on basic filaments you should be a happy camper!
RE: Under-extrusion or gaps at seams with input shaper settings and 5.x firmware
Hi,
I'm having the exact same problem (tried multiple types of PLA), downgraded to non input shaping :/
Hopefully this gets resolved quickly, other than this problem my IS prints look really good.
RE: Under-extrusion or gaps at seams with input shaper settings and 5.x firmware
FWIW, I was battling the seam gap problem (and perimeter to infill gap problem) with IS, and I've tried a bunch of the solutions people have posted here and elsewhere. I was using some Kulannder nozzles off amazon (cheap enough they were probably some Chinese knock-off). I ordered some proper e3d nozzles, and with the default settings, both the seam gap and perimeter-to-infill gap problems are 95% gone using default prusa settings. If you tweak the extrusion multiplier a touch, it's perfect. In this video: the creator mills some of his cheap nozzles in half, and you can see that the interior channel isn't smooth, but wavy. I suspect my cheap ones are similar, and I'm guessing that the increased pressure and flow rates requires for IS mean that artifacts from uneven flow are magnified, resulting in the problems I was having.
Anyway, if you have these problems and aren't using quality nozzles, you might want to try ordering some OEM or other high-quality nozzles, and see if that helps.
RE: Under-extrusion or gaps at seams with input shaper settings and 5.x firmware
FWIW, I was battling the seam gap problem (and perimeter to infill gap problem) with IS, and I've tried a bunch of the solutions people have posted here and elsewhere. I was using some Kulannder nozzles off amazon (cheap enough they were probably some Chinese knock-off). I ordered some proper e3d nozzles, and with the default settings, both the seam gap and perimeter-to-infill gap problems are 95% gone using default prusa settings. If you tweak the extrusion multiplier a touch, it's perfect. In this video: the creator mills some of his cheap nozzles in half, and you can see that the interior channel isn't smooth, but wavy. I suspect my cheap ones are similar, and I'm guessing that the increased pressure and flow rates requires for IS mean that artifacts from uneven flow are magnified, resulting in the problems I was having.
Anyway, if you have these problems and aren't using quality nozzles, you might want to try ordering some OEM or other high-quality nozzles, and see if that helps.
My machine is bone stock, everything from Prusa, except a silicone sock on the hot end to keep wayward filament from gumming it up. It definitely is showing this issue, even after calibrating IS and Extrusion multiplier. I can look into if the nozzle is worn though. I have some pin gauges.
Regards,
Mark
RE: Under-extrusion or gaps at seams with input shaper settings and 5.x firmware
My machine is also stock :/
RE: Under-extrusion or gaps at seams with input shaper settings and 5.x firmware
I have the seam as well 🙁 I love the speed but I also have visible layer lines. At first I thought it was the x or y belt tension but it hasn’t improved after tightening. I do hear the extruder some times so that’s my main suspect for the lines. The seam is something else I think?
RE: Under-extrusion or gaps at seams with input shaper settings and 5.x firmware
Am I missing something here, I very much need to edit my prior post, but don't see anyway to do so. Thus, I must rattle on deeper in the thread, and my misleading old words will live on forever for google to scrape and hand to the TLDR crowd. Anyway....
1) Apologies that I inadvertantly split this thread into slightly unrelated topics, but that's done, and I very much need to update
2) I wholeheartedly retract my prior statements about the Slice Copperhead hotend for the Prusa Mini. I had bought two, for upgrading my two Minis along with the Bondtech IFS upgrade, as a bundle from Slice. Immediately loved the new extruder, big improvement! But my intitial results were terrible with the Slice hotend, and I was keen to return them and started to do so. THEN...I did one last experiment, I replaced the poorly cut PTFE that came with it with a carefully measured replacement (just plain white PTFE!). Boom! It was not only immediately working, but the NinjaFlex print quality was through the roof gorgeous. Mirror-like side finish, and it just goes and goes and goes, I think the days of PTFE shrinkage and endless changeout are over, or at least more like an oil change than brushing your teeth 😉 I installed the second one on the other Mini, identical results. Very happy with these two upgrades, they both print like a dream now.
RE: Under-extrusion or gaps at seams with input shaper settings and 5.x firmware
Anyone from prusa who can help? We really want to you IS but as it is right now it's unusable...
RE: Under-extrusion or gaps at seams with input shaper settings and 5.x firmware
Prusa Slicer 2.7.3 seems to be a little bit of an improvement. I also used z ramping travel. There was still some fine stringing but easy to scrape off. Seams are better.
Regards,
Mark
RE: Under-extrusion or gaps at seams with input shaper settings and 5.x firmware
I did a test with the latest FW 6.0.0 and PS 2.7.4 and compared it with FW 5.1.0 and PS 2.7.1. Printed with IS SPEED 0.2mm profile.
Unfortunately, there is almost no difference 🙁
RE: Under-extrusion or gaps at seams with input shaper settings and 5.x firmware
Unfortunately, I agree, not an improvement with 6.0.0 firmware and 2.74 slicer. Here are two connected spheres. Seams are ugly, and before and after the seem on the overhangs are particularly ugly:
The other side, away from the seam, same overhang, is not too bad:
I tried various perimeters settings and none seemed to make much of a difference.
Regards,
Mark
RE: Under-extrusion or gaps at seams with input shaper settings and 5.x firmware
I got the same problem since Firmware 4.0. Sometimes it's worse than that.
RE: Under-extrusion or gaps at seams with input shaper settings and 5.x firmware
I think I'm on the path to resolving this issue on my Prusa Mini by significantly reducing default retraction length. My setup is stock except running a Diamond Back 0.4mm nozzle (which I confirmed was not the issue by trying a nozzle swap). I'm primarily running Prusament, Atomic, and Printed Solid PETG, but will verify that these settings work on other filaments as well when the opportunity presents itself.
What has helped?
- Reducing default Retraction Length from 2.5mm to 1.1mm
- This was the fix for me. 1.1mm is currently resulting in a slightly proud seam, so I may need to increase this a very slightly.
- Deleting "M221 S95 ; set flow" from Start G-code
- While this did have a positive effect on the seam gap, its impact was significantly less than reducing the retraction length. This was causing other issues that I had long worked around though, and my wall thickness is much closer to slicer predictions following Extrusion multiplier calibration | Prusa Knowledge Base (prusa3d.com)
What did not help?
- Calibrating K-factor
- Increasing retraction
- Made the issue much worse
- Changing temperature
- Replacing the hot end PTFE tube
- Replacing the extruder to hot end PTFE tube
- Adjusting idler tension
- Swapping nozzles
RE: Under-extrusion or gaps at seams with input shaper settings and 5.x firmware
I think I'm on the path to resolving this issue on my Prusa Mini by significantly reducing default retraction length. My setup is stock except running a Diamond Back 0.4mm nozzle (which I confirmed was not the issue by trying a nozzle swap). I'm primarily running Prusament, Atomic, and Printed Solid PETG, but will verify that these settings work on other filaments as well when the opportunity presents itself.
What has helped?
- Reducing default Retraction Length from 2.5mm to 1.1mm
- This was the fix for me. 1.1mm is currently resulting in a slightly proud seam, so I may need to increase this a very slightly.
- Deleting "M221 S95 ; set flow" from Start G-code
- While this did have a positive effect on the seam gap, its impact was significantly less than reducing the retraction length. This was causing other issues that I had long worked around though, and my wall thickness is much closer to slicer predictions following Extrusion multiplier calibration | Prusa Knowledge Base (prusa3d.com)
What did not help?
- Calibrating K-factor
- Increasing retraction
- Made the issue much worse
- Changing temperature
- Replacing the hot end PTFE tube
- Replacing the extruder to hot end PTFE tube
- Adjusting idler tension
- Swapping nozzles
How is your top surface? I became wary of messing with retractions because the top surface went to crap. I'd be willing to try it again though. They really need to incorporate the scarf seams. Orcaslicer users seem happy with that. There are other issues with Orcaslicer running on my Linux computer though, and I do not think they have incorporated input shaper for the mini.
Can't you just change the extrusion multiplier in the slicer settings rather than deleting gcode? I left the M221 in but the extrusion multiplier is 1.1, so it actually gains about 10%
Regards,
Mark
RE: Under-extrusion or gaps at seams with input shaper settings and 5.x firmware
I don't think retraction should appreciably impact top surface quality. Here is a photo of the top of a recent retraction test piece.
Adjusting extrusion multiplier should have a similar impact to adjusting the flow rate via Gcode. I thought the Gcode route was cleaner since I generally dislike having this kind of setting hardcoded.
Your extrusion multiplier of 1.1 should have an effective extrusion multiple of 1.045 (from 1.1 × 0.95). Interestingly, my thickness measurements tell me I should have set mine 1.03, which I'll give a try to see if it gets me better dimensions without impacting the top surface!
RE: Under-extrusion or gaps at seams with input shaper settings and 5.x firmware
I am also struggling with this issue, and was forced to use .20 STRUCTURAL. The problem I think it could be is, since it was released in 2019, that means it has a 2019 heater on it, so it can't handle Input Shaping extremely well. It could be something else, but I'm not really sure.
RE: Under-extrusion or gaps at seams with input shaper settings and 5.x firmware
I am also struggling with this issue, and was forced to use .20 STRUCTURAL. The problem I think it could be is, since it was released in 2019, that means it has a 2019 heater on it, so it can't handle Input Shaping extremely well. It could be something else, but I'm not really sure.
I am not aware of any changes to the heater. That said, I replaced my heater a couple years ago. It does seem that the seams are improving as the firmware and slicer are updated.
Regards,
Mark