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PLEASE HELP JUST WONT PRINT WELL!  

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Shoutbanger
(@shoutbanger)
Active Member
PLEASE HELP JUST WONT PRINT WELL!

Hello All,

Forgive me if this is in the wrong place. It is my first ever post.

MINI PLUS NOT PRINTING PROPERLY - LESS THAN A WEEK OLD!!

I am REALLY needing some advice and help from people far more experienced than I am. My Prusa Mini Plus arrived this week, I purchased the ready built unit. All went together well with no issues. First print was perfect. (Benchy) HOWEVER.... In the last 4 days since the Benchy I have not been able to print anything whatsoever! It is driving me mad! I have had a Creality Ender 3 pro for 6 months or so and am now wishing I had saved my money and bought the new Ender when it is available here in the UK.

The second print on my Mini+ failed due to the filament totally blocking the extruder and wrapping itself around everything. I had to dismantle the entire extruder mechanism to remove the blocked filament. ( I purchased the sensor as well) but no matter what I try I cannot get the damn thing to print anything again. It will not do a good first layer no matter what I try to adjust, heat bed, hot end temp, speed, It is either far too thin or creates 'waves' as you can see in the pictures. The Ender (as you can see) prints a perfect first layer as you can see.

It doesn't matter if I use Cura or Prusaslicer to print it just will not do it. I have even unloaded the Prusa Slicer and reinstalled it but it still will not work properly.

I downloaded a small 50 x 50mm square to test first layer but even with this it is poor.

Not only that but if I do finally get it to print a first level anywhere near flat as you can see in the pictures which is the best I can get it to print.. as soon as I go to print a model it fails.

What makes it worse is that I am disabled (paraplegic - paralyzed from the waist down and as I live alone I have no help) and cannot physically keep mucking about lifting the thing on and off the table adjusting this, that and God knows what else! I just can't do it.

I have even tried to adjust the idler screw to see if it was not feeding filament properly but NOTHING I have tried has worked.

Can ANYONE offer any help on how to get it to print anywhere near a decent print. It's not consistent enough to try and print any long prints. I can print 2 day long prints on my Ender 3 with no worries.

I have tried things I have seen on YouTube but NOTHING seems to work.

I am at my wits end I really am.

Thank you (so much) in advance if anyone else has had similar issues and managed to set up a good quality Prusa Mini+

Brian

 

Posted : 20/01/2022 7:59 pm
Diem
 Diem
(@diem)
Famed Member

Have you washed your print sheet with dishwashing detergent (Dawn/Fairy) and HOT water?

Please show us your first layer Z calibration print on the print sheet.

Almost all adhesion problems are due to  bad first layer or a dirty bed.

Cheerio,

Posted : 21/01/2022 12:10 am
Shoutbanger
(@shoutbanger)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: PLEASE HELP JUST WONT PRINT WELL!

I will give that a go thank you.

I have tried to use a product called PRINTAFIX which seems to work better but as you can see from the photo it is still not good.

Posted : 22/01/2022 1:03 pm
Neophyl
(@neophyl)
Famed Member
RE: PLEASE HELP JUST WONT PRINT WELL!

Your live z is still way too high. You need to lower the nozzle more, ie make the live z value more negative. 

Posted : 22/01/2022 1:11 pm
Bob
 Bob
(@bob-2)
Reputable Member
RE: PLEASE HELP JUST WONT PRINT WELL!

I want to hear more about what happened to the extruder.  I'm trying to visualize in my head what you experienced, but it's eluding me. 

To insure we're using the same language, tthe Extruder is the geared device with a servo motor mounted to the Y-Axis carriage.  The device the extruder connects to via the Bowden Tube mounted on the X-Axis carriage is the Print Head.  The Print Head starts with Heat Sink, this is where the Bowden Tube attaches.  There is a silver tube extending from and below the Heat Sink, this is the Heat Break.  Below and attached to the Heat Break is the Heater Block AKA the Hot End.  The Hot End contains the Heater Cartridge, the Hot End Thermister, and the Nozzle.

Was it the extruder you had an issue with or the print head?  How exactly did the filament create a blockage?

Cheers

-Bob

Prusa I3 Mk2 kit upgraded to Mk2.5s, Ender3 with many mods, Prusa Mini kit

Posted : 23/01/2022 6:59 pm
Shoutbanger
(@shoutbanger)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: PLEASE HELP JUST WONT PRINT WELL!

Hello Bob

Apologies for the delay in replying. I am disabled and struggle with poor health so some days I am not able to do anything.

The extruder clogged up totally. There was filament wrapped around the gear and it was totally blocked. I had to strip the whole thing apart to remove the filament. I am not sure the idle gear was set right? Once I removed the filament I had a hell of a job reloading the filament again. It took ages to get it to work.

The hotend was another issue as this blocked also. I did all the suggested tasks to clear it and after 4 hours of messing about I finally got it to load, and extrude filament OK. But then I had the issues with the first layer not adhering. However I did manage to get a decent layer after several suggestions and even managed a print.

However today I went to print a train piece for my Z scale railway only for it to block up again and fail. It is not extruding filament again.

I give in!!!

For what it cost I could have got the new Ender 3S and I think I will be going down that route in the near future. I have no issues like this with my Ender 3 Pro.

Posted : 27/01/2022 11:22 am
Distinctly Average
(@distinctly-average)
Eminent Member
RE: PLEASE HELP JUST WONT PRINT WELL!

Don’t give up on your printer. Speak to support and see what they can do to help. All 3D printers have issues at times but Prusa do seem more reliable than many. 

Maybe start again. Dismantle the hotend and the extruder then rebuild them following the instructions carefully. Inspect every component carefully for damage. Then carefully set everything up as per the docs. I am sure that way you will find something very obvious and be a happy camper again.

Posted : 27/01/2022 1:00 pm
Bob
 Bob
(@bob-2)
Reputable Member
RE: PLEASE HELP JUST WONT PRINT WELL!

I had many great prints from my Mini when I first got it, then I got my first clog on the hot end and turned myself inside out trying to get the printer to print reliably again.  I got so desperate that I bought a Bondtech heat break and installed it.  It did fix the problem, but after getting out the old heat break I discovered my failure was due to not getting a successful cold pull with the PTFE removed.  With some filament where it didn't belong there was no other solution I could employ that worked.

I agree, take this up with Prusa Support.  They know these printers in a way the rest of us don't, they have experience with hundreds, perhaps thousands of these things.  It's possible that the remediation you've done to clear the problems have detuned the printer in a number of different ways that are now working against you.  FDM printing isn't a hobby that's ready for casual users, there's a pretty steep learning curve and in my 5 years of printing, the learning never stops.  I'm confident the Mini is a solid little printer, even more so now that I've discovered my own failure to properly clear the clog.  The Bondtech heat break may be a beneficial change, I won't know for awhile, I got many good prints on the original heat break, I have to get at least that many on the new one before I'll know if it's a solution.

Cheers

-Bob

Prusa I3 Mk2 kit upgraded to Mk2.5s, Ender3 with many mods, Prusa Mini kit

Posted : 27/01/2022 4:42 pm
languer liked
Shoutbanger
(@shoutbanger)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: PLEASE HELP JUST WONT PRINT WELL!

Thank you Bob,

I have ordered a Bondtech heat break so will see if that works. A friend of mine said he purchased a titanium one from Amazon which worked really well too. I will see if it resolves the issue. I only print in PLA and run the hot-end at 110C for most prints. It is SO FRUSTRATING as I am convinced 'there is a good printer in there somewhere' but so far in the 2 weeks I have had it, it has done 4 'OK' prints the rest either fail or block up. (It has blocked up 5 times so far). I have installed new software, stripped the hot end, re calibrated the entire machine, even took it back to factory settings and started from scratch but I am still having the same issues. I have also tried various PLA types (even a brand new one) but it still blocks. I will see if the heat break you suggest works if not I will get in touch with support.

Don't get this problem with my trusty Ender-3 Pro - 1 year used nearly every day and not a single blockage!!!

 

Posted : 27/01/2022 7:44 pm
Distinctly Average
(@distinctly-average)
Eminent Member
RE: PLEASE HELP JUST WONT PRINT WELL!

Do you mean 210C? 

Posted : 27/01/2022 10:21 pm
Shoutbanger
(@shoutbanger)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: PLEASE HELP JUST WONT PRINT WELL!

Yes 210C. (Typo)

That's another thing I noted. My mini plus reverts to 170C every time I try to print. I have to manually adjust it in the 'tune' section. I have set it to 210C in the settings but for some reason it reverts back to 170C. 

Posted : 27/01/2022 10:26 pm
Bob
 Bob
(@bob-2)
Reputable Member
RE: PLEASE HELP JUST WONT PRINT WELL!

I own an Ender 3 also, but I bought mine before the Pro came out.  I have 2 friends who have the Pro and the big difference between what they received and what I received is the removable magnetic bead.

I've had more problems with my Ender than I have had with my Mini.  I also have about the same amount of money in it as I upgraded the bed with the Buildtek bed, added an EZABL, and replaced the motherboard with the Bigtreetech SKR Mini E3.  I've had to replace the hotend on my Ender, and rewire the harness to the X-Axis servo.

Have you seen how to replace the PTFE on the Mini hot end?  https://www.help.prusa3d.com/en/guide/how-to-replace-a-hotend-ptfe-tube-mini-mini_119449

It turned out my failure was to get the heat break clean as shown in step 7.  It was hard for me to see with the heat break in the machine, but when I removed it it was clear as day I didn't get that part done well and that's why I was having trouble and why a new heat break fixed it.

Cheers

-Bob

 

Prusa I3 Mk2 kit upgraded to Mk2.5s, Ender3 with many mods, Prusa Mini kit

Posted : 27/01/2022 10:44 pm
Shoutbanger
(@shoutbanger)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: PLEASE HELP JUST WONT PRINT WELL!

I will give it a go tomorrow morning and strip the hotend down again. I may have issue there. I will keep you posted. Thank you for your help.

Regards

 

Brian

Posted : 27/01/2022 10:49 pm
JoanTabb
(@joantabb)
Moderator
RE: PLEASE HELP JUST WONT PRINT WELL!

good morning, 

If I am reading your post correctly, 
you are concerned about the Prusa Mini, beginning a print session with a different extruder temperature to the one that you set for the filament. 

I believe this is the intended process. 
the Printer partially heats the extruder to prevent oozing filament marking the build plate during mesh bed levelling, then it completes heating the extruder before beginning the print. (This is effectively a two stage heat up process intended to reduce 'blobbing' with some filaments, during mesh bed levelling)

below is a copy of the Prusa Mini, "Custom Gcode, Start Gcode " from my copy of Prusa Slicer

-----------------------

G90 ; use absolute coordinates
M83 ; extruder relative mode
M104 S170 ; set extruder temp for bed leveling
M140 S[first_layer_bed_temperature] ; set bed temp
M109 R170 ; wait for bed leveling temp
M190 S[first_layer_bed_temperature] ; wait for bed temp
M204 T1250 ; set travel acceleration
G28 ; home all without mesh bed level
G29 ; mesh bed leveling
M204 T[machine_max_acceleration_travel] ; restore travel acceleration
M104 S[first_layer_temperature] ; set extruder temp
G92 E0
G1 Y-2 X179 F2400
G1 Z3 F720
M109 S[first_layer_temperature] ; wait for extruder temp

; intro line
G1 X170 F1000
G1 Z0.2 F720
G1 X110 E8 F900
G1 X40 E10 F700
G92 E0

M221 S95 ; set flow

----------------------------------

in the example above,
the first red line of Gcode pre sets the extruder temperature to 170C in preparation for mesh bed levelling, 
the second red line causes the printer to wait for the extruder to reach 170C   (this line is pretty much redundant because the heat bed heats up more slowly than the extruder, so in reallity the first green line of Gcode will be the controlling factor 

the first green line, causes the printer to wait until the heat bed has achieved working temperature, before starting Mesh Bed Levelling. 

the third red line, is activated AFTER mesh bed levelling and starts the extruder heating to working temperature
and
the fourth red line of Gcode, causes the printer to wait until the working temperature has been achieved for the extruder. 
after this the printer starts printing with the Intro Line (Purge line)
and then hands control over to the model Gcode created by the slicer.\

If I understand your post correctly, 
when the printer starts up, you see the extruder being ste to 170C and you force the printer to heat to the expected 210C

All that you are doing,, by changing the temperature,  is bypassing the two stage heat up process, which may cause blobbing during mesh bed levelling.

I hope that my explanation helps you understand what the printer is doing. 

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK

Posted : 28/01/2022 10:15 am
Bob
 Bob
(@bob-2)
Reputable Member
RE: PLEASE HELP JUST WONT PRINT WELL!

The short answer to why your Mini goes to 170 is to probe the bed.  The heat from the nozzle impacts the Minda probe and can throw off it's accuracy.    Prusa has determined that 170 is the best temp at which to probe the bed to get repeatability.  If you would be patient you'd see that after the bed is probed it parks the head until it reaches the temperature you set in your slicer for the print.

Regards

-Bob

Prusa I3 Mk2 kit upgraded to Mk2.5s, Ender3 with many mods, Prusa Mini kit

Posted : 28/01/2022 1:16 pm
Shoutbanger
(@shoutbanger)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: PLEASE HELP JUST WONT PRINT WELL!

Hello and thank you for your very good explanation. By forcing the temp to 210C each time I may have caused the issues myself. I will

see what happens once I have cleaned the current blockage and let you know.

Thanks again

Brian.

Posted : 30/01/2022 4:31 pm
Shoutbanger
(@shoutbanger)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: PLEASE HELP JUST WONT PRINT WELL!

Thank you Bob,

I have had a friend around this afternoon to try and help me get it printing well. He also fitted a new Bond-tech heat break this afternoon. He has been 3D printing for 4 years and knows a lot more than I do. After 6 hours of trying, stripping down the extruder (cleaning a lot of filament dust) stripping down the hot end, cleaning it and fitting a new E3D nozzle as well as the bond-tech heat break, adding the new codes, resetting the printer and doing a full calibration he has got it printing a decent first layer - FOR A WHILE. When we print the 50x50 layer square I downloaded from the Prusa site it prints great for about 20 lines then it breaks up with little dots of filament. We adjust the Z height which then corrects it only for it to do it again around 10-15 lines later. No matter what Z height he tries it just will not extrude an even layer. I used the exact same GCODE on my Ender 3 Pro and it printed it PERFECTLY!

He has had to give up on it today but said he will have another look later in the week. Unfortunately my health is not too good at present (hence delay in reply) so I will have to wait for round 2. I find the whole thing so frustrating. It is 2 weeks old and just will not print properly. I had to save up for it for months and I am so disappointed with it.

In the meantime I will give customer support an email and see what they can suggest.

Thank you,

Brian

Posted : 30/01/2022 4:44 pm
Shoutbanger
(@shoutbanger)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: PLEASE HELP JUST WONT PRINT WELL!

As you can all see it prints a good first layer for around 15 lines. Then is just breaks up!! It does this NO MATTER WHAT Z HEIGHT we set it to. We have tried: various PLA filaments, a range of temperatures, it has had a new quality nozzle, extruder stripped and cleaned, hot end stripped and cleaned (no blockages found) sensor adjusted, fully re-calibrated (twice), bed tightness checked, bed cleaned.

No matter what we try it just will not print. I have had one print in 2 weeks of ownership!

As you can see from the photo it will simply not print a constant layer!

Posted : 30/01/2022 4:55 pm
Bob
 Bob
(@bob-2)
Reputable Member
RE: PLEASE HELP JUST WONT PRINT WELL!

Your friend who helped you, does he own a Mini?  You have to take care when fitting the hot end PTFE tubing, if that isn't done correctly you'll have extrusion problems.  The instruction page is here: https://help.prusa3d.com/en/guide/how-to-replace-a-hotend-ptfe-tube-mini-mini_119449/   Successfully completing steps 11 and 12 are crucial to insuring you don't clog the heat break.

Cheers

-Bob

Prusa I3 Mk2 kit upgraded to Mk2.5s, Ender3 with many mods, Prusa Mini kit

Posted : 30/01/2022 5:36 pm
Shoutbanger
(@shoutbanger)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: PLEASE HELP JUST WONT PRINT WELL!

Yes he does Bob. Indeed he has 2 of them. He has experienced the same issues as I am having with BOTH of his but the things we did today solved his issues. Clearly it has not worked for me. 

 

We followed the steps you show in the link (thank you) perfectly but unfortunately it looks like it has not worked for me. 

I will have to get in touch with customer service I think. 

I will post to let people know if it's resolved.

 

Thanks again

Posted : 30/01/2022 5:41 pm
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