[Resuelto] Must do: Hardware upgrades, why?!?  

RE: Possible image please.

Posted by: @nick-4

Just keep in mind it's two fold, thermal paste alone won't fix an incorrectly set up PETG tube.

Arctic silver or any CPU thermal paste will suffice for this application. Just my opinion grizzly kryonaut would be a bit of a waste on this application, you also get very little of it.

Also route those cables away from the heat sink fan. Makes a world of difference.

3D Printing is still a tinker hobby. You can't get set and forget, well not yet anyway. 

 Hi Nick anychance of a image of the rerouted wires. 

Ive 8 minis i'm currently updating to the SuperPinda aswell as giving each one a overhaul with such things like grease, bearing , e3d Nozzles , belts so on due to being 2nd hand.

So be good to adjust these while I'm at it but I find there is little to no movement once the clamp for the Pinda is in place.

What I will say in my experience so far to the thread is comparing to my mk3s+ the mini's seem to be more prone to having to mess around with hardware to get things dialled in but having figured out how it works and stripping things down there isn't really to much to it when you think about the route the filament takes its basically always comes down to either the extruder or nozzle being at fault.

So for the price I would go for the mini but if not then my mk3s+ just works, did look into the updates like extruder and heatbreak but when you start adding them up especially having to update 8 printers you're then moving into the mk3s territory.

Upgrade

I do think that if you going to upgrade, it is a good place to do so after you have them running well and need maintenance at the same time.  

I see your point

Posted by: @cwbullet

I do think that if you going to upgrade, it is a good place to do so after you have them running well and need maintenance at the same time.  

I see your point. If I know that down the track something will give me a headache, personally, I prefer to just upgrade and forget about it rather than having a print you cannot use waiting for parts.
Some content with my current printer:

• Plastic extruder kit: It will crack and break down the track. Metal extruder kit installed during the assembling.
• stock bed spring: just terrible and the bed will shake asf. Stronger with flat base spring installed during the assembling
• coggled nozzle: as you all know, PTFE tube will melt from time to time causing coggled nozzle. "Installed CHEP hot end fix" using Capricorn which sustains better at high temps

Basic upgrades that save me from having a hard time compared to other users with the same printer.

upgrades

Posted by: @ratolloko

 

Posted by: @cwbullet

I do think that if you going to upgrade, it is a good place to do so after you have them running well and need maintenance at the same time.  

I see your point. If I know that down the track something will give me a headache, personally, I prefer to just upgrade and forget about it rather than having a print you cannot use waiting for parts.
Some content with my current printer:

• Plastic extruder kit: It will crack and break down the track. Metal extruder kit installed during the assembling.
• stock bed spring: just terrible and the bed will shake asf. Stronger with flat base spring installed during the assembling
• coggled nozzle: as you all know, PTFE tube will melt from time to time causing coggled nozzle. "Installed CHEP hot end fix" using Capricorn which sustains better at high temps

Basic upgrades that save me from having a hard time compared to other users with the same printer.

 

Good points.  Upgrades have helped me on my Ender, but I did learn to do them one at a time.

Enjoy

Enjoy your mini and happy printing!

Prusa...

Posted by: @cwbullet

 

Posted by: @ratolloko

Is Prusa working on those issues to make it worth the money you spent on it???  

Thank you

My Prusas are well worth the money spent with zero modifications.  I own 8 Mk3S and 5 Minis.  I own an Ender 3 and CR10 S Pro and would not pay a dime for another one.  Pure garbage compared to the Prusas.  I realized some folks get lemons, but I see far less with Prusas.  

Just one users view.  

I am very satisfied with my Mini. I too have used it out of the box and have printed 100s of items in both PLA and PETG with no issues. I have had a few miss prints but they are largely due to me not orienting them correctly in the slicer.

Other causes

Posted by: @mysdawg

 . I have had a few miss prints but they are largely due to me not orienting them correctly in the slicer.

That cause it a common cause for failures as is choosing the wrong printer or filament.  

RE: Heated Filament Boxes

Posted by: @ratolloko

I've found the best "upgrade" to better printing is to dry my filament.

Same, I have a basic Creality dryer and leaving it on for hours or leaving it on during long printing leaves the skin so smooth. Some models look like it was made from a mold/cast.

I want to point out that the Creality Dryer, as well as the similar Filadryer S1, that are heated boxes you can put the filament in any time, including while printing, are the "next level" in drying.

I've found that depending on the humidity, my filament absorbs moisture during long prints. After a while, zits start to form that I think are due to little moisture explosions as it boils in the hot end.

In the image, the bottom is printed first. You can see some shadowing and maybe some oscillation as it was printed fast with an infill pattern, but near the top, you can see zits starting to form. I believe the first part of the filament was dried well and the stuff used for the top started to absorb moisture. Keeping them in a heated box would eliminate that problem.

Regards,

Mark

I believe the first part of the filament was dried well and the stuff used for the top started to absorb moisture. Keeping them in a heated box would eliminate that problem.

How do you explain that last quarter of the print (on top) is ok again?

dryers

Posted by: @mark-3

 

Posted by: @ratolloko

I want to point out that the Creality Dryer, as well as the similar Filadryer S1, that are heated boxes you can put the filament in any time, including while printing, are the "next level" in drying.

I own FilaDryer, Creality, Javo, and Esun dryers.  I think they have a place.  Are they the next level, no.  They still are essentially most useful ar keeping the filament dry for short periods.  I would not keep them running for days on end unless you print with the filament they contain every day.  

RE: Zits!

Posted by: @bogdanh

I believe the first part of the filament was dried well and the stuff used for the top started to absorb moisture. Keeping them in a heated box would eliminate that problem.

How do you explain that last quarter of the print (on top) is ok again?

No, I can't. When I dried the filament for 8+ hours, there were no zits at all. Maybe it has something to do with how far the water diffused into the roll, and a short drying only got it out of the outer layers, leaving the middle with some water, and the inner never got water diffused in. That is just a wild guess. It's Prusament, so the winding on the spool is very tight. I studied Thermodynamics and Diffusion a few decades ago, so not an expert.

Regards,

Mark

Where's the Prua QA?

I'm going to agree on the Mini. I don't have much experience with other printers. I used my Mini for a year, bone stock, printing 16 hours a day, going through dozens of rolls of filament, for months, with PETG and ASA and it worked fine with appropriate attention that all printers need. After a year the hot end PTFE tube wore out and due to my inexperience trying other things I had to rebuild the hot end. I got new hot end parts from Prusa and put them together as the guides said and it is working again, at least as well as before. I did add a silicone sock to keep the hot end from getting munged up.

No, it is not perfect, and it takes some attention and experience to run, but upgrades are not a "Must", or there would not lots of them that are working just fine. You just don't have many posting to forums when they have no complaints.

There are some Ender 3 users that use their machine stock and are also happy with it. In fact, there's this guy on Youtube claiming to have printed over 10.000 hours on a bone stock Ender 3 and not having issues with it:

So even on an Ender 3, the upgrades are not mandatory. Even printing TPU on a stock Ender (or any other printer I guess) should be possible, if you print slow enough (Naomi Wu's words).

The 'problem' with the Prusa Mini is more the name and reputation of the brand. To be honest, I'm a bit shocked to find that even now, the same problems exist on the Prusa Mini, and it's mostly a QA problem. Too little thermal paste? PTFE tube too short? I can imagine those things being a problem in the first few months, but not a year after introduction. Not with a brand like Pusa. Creality is a budget brand, cutting corners everywhere they can to make a 3D printer that'll do the trick for the minimum amount of money. You can choose to upgrade, and the 'mandatory' upgrades are minimal imho, but you can go as far as you wish (and your wallet allows you). But that's something you can expect from a budget brand, not from Prusa.

Also, when you produce an open source printer, and you make it hard for users to replace parts, you start looking like Apple, making it impossible to change the screen where they want (iPhone 13 will block face recognition when screen is replaced at a non-Apple workshop). Meaning that if you change the extruder for the Bondtech unit and apply the hotend fix, you can't save the new PID and E-Steps value in memory. What's up with that? Why?

I don't have a Prusa, but I'm asked to recommend a 3D printer for a beginner and I was thinking about recommending the Mini(+) because it's a more painless start into 3D printing. But now I read about these problems and that they persist even after a year, and I'm disappointed. Might as well go for an Ender 3, apply a few upgrades for less than €50 and be done with it. But for a Mini, you'll be spending north of €500 to be trouble free I'm afraid...

RE: Must do: Hardware upgrades, why?!?

There are some Ender 3 users that use their machine stock and are also happy with it. In fact, there's this guy on Youtube claiming to have printed over 10.000 hours on a bone stock Ender 3 and not having issues with it

-and I believe them! (btw. great video)
Let's be honest to ourselves: 90% (my guess) of troubles with any printer happen because of bad assembly. Sometimes I have an impression that some printer owners don't really understand what "perpendicular" means... and so I'll repeat here: it's exactly 90°. And then, some are more skilled with hands than others and having more handwork experience, they know what "don't overtighten the screw" means (it doesn't mean it should be almost lose).
I mentioned in another post, that most consumer printer (within price range) produce very similar print results -if assembled and adjusted properly. But as we know, it's not only about "which makes better benchy". There are things, that just make our (printing) life easier... flex steel sheet, for example -I'm ready to pay for that! Then there's reliable auto bed leveling -again, I'm ready to pay for that. Etc.

Yes, Prusa is (too) expensive and that's why many expect it to be "perfect" in every aspect.. which is kinda naive. The only upgrade I personally recommend on Mini, is heat break -is only about 16€. But as it seems, for some 16€ is enough to complain.

Speaking for me, I didn't bough Prusa Mini because I was expecting "better" prints than with Ender, for example. The thing is, Mini has some features quite important for me. And if someone sees no benefit in these features, he should seriously consider Ender or similar cheaper printer.
And finally, why would you (not) recommend printer you have no experience with?

Just sharing my thoughts...

Recommendations

And finally, why would you (not) recommend printer you have no experience with?

Ah well...that's a story in itself. When you own a 3D printer, you're the expert for the people around you. So a friend asked me what 3D printer to get for her son (about 12-13 ish, not sure). The boy is pretty smart, I guess he can figure out how it works. But still, I want to recommend a printer that's a bit more reliable than a pure hobby machine like the Ender that's really made on a budget. According to the reputation, a Prusa machine should provide a better out of the box experience. At least, that's what everybody is telling me. And then I start looking a bit further into the Mini and I notice that there are apparently some problems. Problems I expected to be solved within a few months, But I still see stories of people with bad experiences. I don't know what to make of that.

I know that the people with a bad experience, whatever the problem is, have the loudest voices. But still I don't expect that if I buy a Prusa, be it a Mini or a Mk3, that I'm more or less forced to upgrade something. The heatbreak fix is something Prusa should do.

RE: Answer: none

so, here is a loud voice (no, I won't use caps) from one who has no problems. well, at least no unfixable problems.

The mini is my first 3D printer and I have it for a year now.

I had some issues at the start:

1. clogged hot-end, reason: heatbreak/teflon tube setup was off resulution: take out the nozzle, heatblock and heatbreak, take out the short teflon tube and rebuild everything with some good thermal compound (I used some leftover arctic silver-5 ) and follow the instructions on the prusa website to the letter. (and to the millimeter) 

I bought the bond tech heatbrake and the extruder but I haven't used the parts yet. 

2. bed adhesion.

TPU, phone case -> use brim

PETC, kazoo body -> brim

PLA, PETC in gemeral: clean the print surface properly.

PEI: acetone from time to time. still on my fist sheet.

textured: ("NO ACETONE!" the label says..) but IPA, a lot of IPA. (not the beer!)
for PEI, you can get away with a moist makeup pad you stole from your gf but the textured sheet wants to get soaked.
also: don't let it dry, wipe it off so you take the contaminants off along with the IPA.

3. and recently: moist filament.
srsly, get something to dry that stuff. here is a pic of 2 kazoos. same gcode, same printer, same filament (peusament PETG, clear), one day apart.
difference: the left one was printed before 4h at 65°C in the oven and the right one after.

I don't feel any need to install the upgrades I have already bought.

perhaps I will put the bond tech stuff on some day. but only if I can dial the mandatory changes in via the firmware. the current beta firmware can do that for the extruder.

first I was worried about the one arm design being fragile and giving bad results but no.. no issues.

in fact the little machine has given me more fun than anything else for a very long time. I'd even prefer it over the most current i3.

Except for the dangerous bit, sure

Posted by: @mike-philippens

[...] So even on an Ender 3, the upgrades are not mandatory. Even printing TPU on a stock Ender (or any other printer I guess) should be possible, if you print slow enough (Naomi Wu's words).

Unless you received one of the early units with basic thermal runaway features disabled, or a later unit with faulty power connectors that were prone to burning up. I like my Artillery Sidewinder but consider some basic cable protection for the AC bed power mandatory to consider it safe to use.