Which sheet for ABS?  

RE: Which sheet for ABS?

IPA only spreads oil around the sheet and doesn't remove it. Typical recourse is dish detergent and warm water. You can also try Magigoo specifically formulated for ABS/ASA. Alternatively you can switch to using BIQU CryoGrip Glacier sheets. They are less expensive and have much better adhesion than the any of Prusa plates. You also don't need to clean them. 

RE:

Spray adhesive and look no further. PVA is like a magical solution to the problem: extremely sticky at temperature, robust to contaminants like fingerprints.

I used to work in cleanrooms - a long time ago - but have no intention of turning my hobby cave into one without very good reason 🙂

PS the printer is just purring on a 10h21 ASA print where I actually didn't bother to clean the sheet, just sprayed a layer over it. That's the level of confidence, got more interesting problems to deal with.

RE: Which sheet for ABS?

Hi Melt:

I print a lot of ABS and have good adhesion results using the following recipe: 1. Textured sheets 2. Wash sheet using Dawn detergent and HOT water between each print, rinse well, dry with paper towel, don't touch the print area when putting back on the bed 3. Magigoo Pro PC (polycarbonate) if needed 4. 5 mm skirt if needed for small parts. Sometimes I apply a few dabs for Magigoo and then a little 99% IPA to spread it around evenly on the sheet just where the print will be located and to thin it out.

KC

RE:

Or get a CryoGrip or G10 sheet. ABS and ASA adhere so well that you should not use glue or the parts could weld themselves to the sheet. 

For ASA I use a Garolite G10 build plate with nano-polymer adhesive and for smaller parts the CryoGrip. The Prusa sheets (in my opinion) are just too much trouble to keep clean. I've recycled all of mine. 

RE:

>> that you should not use glue 

But the beauty of PVA is that it's water-soluble. I aborted an ASA print earlier today halfway through first layer and the thin film is near-impossible to get off on smooth PEI+3DLAC (worst of all, a single-extrusion width skirt). Solution? Hot water from the tap and everything can be scrubbed off after a minute with a spatula, not requiring force.

RE: Which sheet for ABS?

Hi rozzcris,

Thanks for your answer (the first to really answer my question 😀 although the other answers were very helpful as well)!  So I suppose my glue stick is really too old, because there was absolutely no stickiness when I removed the plate from the printer. I will try some DIY PVA glue spray that I found at reddit ( https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/comments/g07ndb/recipe_for_magigoo or https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/comments/vv22lx/my_tried_and_tested_method_for_easy_perfect_bed ).

Interestingly, I am having adhesion issues with all the print plates I ordered for my new CoreOne L (Satin and Structured), even with PLA which never was a problem on my old MK3S with the PEI sheet. The only material I could print with sufficient adhesion was PETG. On the MK3S I simply printed PLA, TPU, ABS, PETG with no problem at all (well except from warping at larger ABS prints due to the lack of an enclosure). I thought that satin and structured sheets were even better for my new printer, but now I start to question what the hell the purpose of these sheets is if the PEI sheet solves all adhesion issues ...

I just ordered a PEI sheet for the CoreOne L and see if that will solve all adhesion issues again.

Btw, it took a while to realise that PVA is not polyvinyl alcohol, but polyvinyl acetate 😀 

Melt

RE: Which sheet for ABS?

Hi Hyiger,

That's an interesting information - didn't know sheets with that properties even existed ... thanks for sharing!

Melt

RE: Which sheet for ABS?

Hi mnentwig,

thanks for that idea. I hadn't heard about that PVA stuff, and I.even took me a while to realise that PVA ist not polyvinyl alcohol, but polyvinyl acetat 🙂 I think I will try that, with the recipes I found on reddit.

Melt

RE: Which sheet for ABS?

Posted by: @melt

even took me a while to realise that PVA ist not polyvinyl alcohol, but polyvinyl acetat 🙂

Same here... 😉 The preferred acronym which avoids misunderstandings is PVAC or PVAc, I think.

RE: Which sheet for ABS?

Interestingly, I am having adhesion issues with all the print plates I ordered for my new CoreOne L (Satin and Structured), even with PLA which never was a problem on my old MK3S with the PEI sheet.

You shouldn't be getting adhesion issues with PLA on a Satin or Smooth sheet (the Textured sheet is a different story). Can you post a picture of the underside of your print to the forum ? It may be that your first layer is printing too high - that the loadcell calibration is off somehow.

RE: Which sheet for ABS?

BTW, did you notice, the "best answer" disappeared because it turned out to be an AI bot 🙂

Needless to say, AI is good at summarizing and infinitely more patient than humans so it's not surprising. 

My experience with print sheets is, they have quite a bit of "memory" (probably residue, especially when changing materials). E.g. print repeatedly on the same spot and adhesion changes - usually more sticky, if not "too sticky". Surface roughness may play a role, too. I remember a brand-new smooth PEI sheet being "difficult" but that settled after a while.

RE: Which sheet for ABS?

Hi HappyKatz,

sure. I recovered two peeled-off layers from the dustbin (first layer of support structures). Both are PLA (Galaxy black with glitter), one is from the satin sheet, the other one from the structured sheet. Layer thickness is 0.15-0.2mm for the satin (2nd photo, with structural defect due to one strand that had peeled of and was printed over), 0.2-0.25mm for the structured sheet (1st photo. The 0.05mm greater thickness is probably due to the small dimples in the sheet surface), measured on the outermost edge to avoid any bulges due to neighbouring passes.

RE: Which sheet for ABS?

Hi mnentwig,

ok, my sheets are very new, they came together with the printer. They are my first satin and structured sheet, so I have no experience there. on my old printer, I started with my PEI sheet and I had no adhesion problems ever with those 5 years, with none of my materials (PLA, PETG, ABS, TPU). I was always wondering what fuss other people were making about adhesion ... with this experience, I'm really wondering which demands the satin and structured sheets might fulfill that are not already fulfilled by the PEI sheets ... If my PEI sheet (that I ordered after this experience) turns out to be as universal as it was in the MK3S, I will use that and toss the other two away until im might find out their true purpose one day 😉

The problem is, however, I don't know how to age my sheets if my prints avoid to stick 😀

RE: Which sheet for ABS?

>> how to age my sheets 

How about dropping a cube into the slicer, scaling it to printbed size and change its height to the intended first layer height?

For experiments, start with stamp-sized chips on the same spot. You may notice the difference in adhesion after a few attempts (hint: long-pushing the button exposes Z offset control, interesting feature).

A printsheet-sized foil takes some time but the cost for the material is negligible so just run that when the printer has nothing to do for an hour.