Which sheet for ABS?
Hi all,
I‘m trying to print a few small ABS parts, and I keep having first-layer adhesion problems. I tried both satin and textured sheets, thoroughly cleaned with isopropyl alcohol 99%, even tried applying a layer of glue stick (which admittedly was very old), but the first layer adhesion is very poor so it starts coming off as soon as the nozzle ends one line and quickly moves to a new position.
I‘m puzzled because (1) the satin sheet is said to be very suitable for ABS as far as I found out, and (2) the glue stick method is said to work if nothing else does. However, the applied glue dried to a absolutely non-sticking dry layer on the 100C heat bed (well, maybe it was too old), and it did not improve adhesion even a bit.
So my questions are:
(1) is the satin sheet suitable for ABS (as noted even by Prusa) or not? Am I doing something wrong? Is 99% IPA maybe too concentrated?
(2) shouldn’t glue stick improve adhesion?
Thanks for any tips/opinions …
Melt.
Best Answer by rozzcris:
Hi Melt:
Satin sheets can work for ABS, but they’re a bit less forgiving than smooth PEI, so adhesion issues usually come down to setup rather than the sheet itself. 99% IPA is fine for cleaning, but it only removes grease and doesn’t improve stickiness. A glue stick should help in theory, but if it’s old or dried out, it can actually do nothing at all, especially on a 100°C bed where it may lose tack. In most ABS cases, poor first-layer adhesion is more often caused by slight Z-offset issues, insufficient first-layer squish, drafts/no enclosure, or bed temperature being a bit low, rather than the surface choice itself.
RE: Which sheet for ABS?
IPA only spreads oil around the sheet and doesn't remove it. Typical recourse is dish detergent and warm water. You can also try Magigoo specifically formulated for ABS/ASA. Alternatively you can switch to using BIQU CryoGrip Glacier sheets. They are less expensive and have much better adhesion than the any of Prusa plates. You also don't need to clean them.
RE:
Spray adhesive and look no further. PVA is like a magical solution to the problem: extremely sticky at temperature, robust to contaminants like fingerprints.
I used to work in cleanrooms - a long time ago - but have no intention of turning my hobby cave into one without very good reason 🙂
PS the printer is just purring on a 10h21 ASA print where I actually didn't bother to clean the sheet, just sprayed a layer over it. That's the level of confidence, got more interesting problems to deal with.
RE: Which sheet for ABS?
Hi Melt:
I print a lot of ABS and have good adhesion results using the following recipe: 1. Textured sheets 2. Wash sheet using Dawn detergent and HOT water between each print, rinse well, dry with paper towel, don't touch the print area when putting back on the bed 3. Magigoo Pro PC (polycarbonate) if needed 4. 5 mm skirt if needed for small parts. Sometimes I apply a few dabs for Magigoo and then a little 99% IPA to spread it around evenly on the sheet just where the print will be located and to thin it out.
KC
RE:
Or get a CryoGrip or G10 sheet. ABS and ASA adhere so well that you should not use glue or the parts could weld themselves to the sheet.
For ASA I use a Garolite G10 build plate with nano-polymer adhesive and for smaller parts the CryoGrip. The Prusa sheets (in my opinion) are just too much trouble to keep clean. I've recycled all of mine.
RE:
>> that you should not use glue
But the beauty of PVA is that it's water-soluble. I aborted an ASA print earlier today halfway through first layer and the thin film is near-impossible to get off on smooth PEI+3DLAC (worst of all, a single-extrusion width skirt). Solution? Hot water from the tap and everything can be scrubbed off after a minute with a spatula, not requiring force.
RE: Which sheet for ABS?
Hi Melt:
Satin sheets can work for ABS, but they’re a bit less forgiving than smooth PEI, so adhesion issues usually come down to setup rather than the sheet itself. 99% IPA is fine for cleaning, but it only removes grease and doesn’t improve stickiness. A glue stick should help in theory, but if it’s old or dried out, it can actually do nothing at all, especially on a 100°C bed where it may lose tack. In most ABS cases, poor first-layer adhesion is more often caused by slight Z-offset issues, insufficient first-layer squish, drafts/no enclosure, or bed temperature being a bit low, rather than the surface choice itself.
RE: Which sheet for ABS?
Hi Hyiger,
That's an interesting information - didn't know sheets with that properties even existed ... thanks for sharing!
Melt
RE: Which sheet for ABS?
Hi mnentwig,
thanks for that idea. I hadn't heard about that PVA stuff, and I.even took me a while to realise that PVA ist not polyvinyl alcohol, but polyvinyl acetat 🙂 I think I will try that, with the recipes I found on reddit.
Melt