RE: Whose upgrading to Core One?
Yeah, its a bit of a scam, I think. You buy a MK4, then have to upgrade to a MK4S, but wait, its not enclosed, so pay $350 for an enclosure. But wait, now for the latest, pay $450 more, so you can throw it all away, but keep the extruder, and you have a "new" printer, that only cost you $1900 for a printer you can get from Bambu for $800 fully assembled. Certainly 3D printed parts, "open source", and these "upgrade" kits were a good PRUSA invention at one time, but its time to move on.
I guess I don't see the scam part. Does your original MK4 stop working when a new printer is released?
If you want to have the latest and greatest then your gonna have to keep on buying. Normally people are complaining that Prusa is easy behind and using outdated stuff. Now when they are innovating and doing it fast we complain.
Seems like no matter what they did many wouldn't be happy. I'll never understand why if your disappointed or unhappy with Prusa why you hang out on the forum. Wouldn't it make more sense to hop on the Bamboo forum?
Id say be glad that there is an upgrade path at all. 99% of other manufacturers offer no upgrade path. You can buy their new printer at full price of you want the latest and greatest.
RE: Whose upgrading to Core One?
Nobody is forced to make an update. But they have the option to do so if they see an advantage for themselves.
The MK4 also prints perfectly and quickly.
Prusa will not and cannot use a Klipper. And if so, then not in the way you want a Klipper system to work.
Prusa are also professional devices with high safety standards.
They certainly don't do anything with a Linux computer in the network. 100%.
If you want to play, you have to buy a toy.
Bambulab is backed by large financial investors. They want to see money at some point.
Or do you assume that Bambulab still earns good money from the printers in order to be able to develop future projects?
They probably earn more with filament and accessories.
Why do you think they insist on their cloud? Yes, some things work without it. But the full convenience is only available with it.
A subscription model seems like a solution. It's also being tried for 2D printers at the moment. You could also learn how to make it more difficult to print other people's material from there.
Everything seems to be ready. Or the printers will become more expensive. This has already been announced for the new Bambulab.
Or do you think it will stay that way?
What Bambulab is doing is conquering the market, then it's time to cash in.
Prusa makes an offer, the buyers decide whether they want it.
Those who don't feel they want it buy something else, that's fine too.
RE:
Nobody is forced to make an update. But they have the option to do so if they see an advantage for themselves.
The MK4 also prints perfectly and quickly.
Prusa will not and cannot use a Klipper. And if so, then not in the way you want a Klipper system to work.
Prusa are also professional devices with high safety standards.
They certainly don't do anything with a Linux computer in the network. 100%.
If you want to play, you have to buy a toy.Bambulab is backed by large financial investors. They want to see money at some point.
Or do you assume that Bambulab still earns good money from the printers in order to be able to develop future projects?
They probably earn more with filament and accessories.
Why do you think they insist on their cloud? Yes, some things work without it. But the full convenience is only available with it.
A subscription model seems like a solution. It's also being tried for 2D printers at the moment. You could also learn how to make it more difficult to print other people's material from there.
Everything seems to be ready. Or the printers will become more expensive. This has already been announced for the new Bambulab.
Or do you think it will stay that way?
What Bambulab is doing is conquering the market, then it's time to cash in.Prusa makes an offer, the buyers decide whether they want it.
Those who don't feel they want it buy something else, that's fine too.
These are great points! They could turn into the Stratasys of the hobby 3d printing world. Plus they've been trying to grab some of the business market, which is Stratasys's bread and butter. This may be why Sratasys decided to go after Bamboo lab because they see them as a threat.
RE: Whose upgrading to Core One?
Just a shame, I want to like Prusa and they work fine, but they just can't keep up with competitive pricing, when every other cheap printer can produce the same quality parts, only difference being the maintenance required with really cheap ones. And if you don't want to deal with much maintenance, then you just buy Bambu and save a ton, with more build volume!
What started to irk me was when they didn't even have a toplight on the MK4 to light up the bed, but for some reason have the useless underglow below the screen. And some people had the audacity to defend that when I pointed out how stupid easy and cheap it would be to add such a simple lighting fixture. Their design choices are dated
RE: Whose upgrading to Core One?
The MK4 also prints perfectly and quickly.
yawn, so does every other printer on the market, printing "perfectly and quickly" means nothing other than the settings in your slicer and proper tuning. Tell us you're an amateur in printing without telling us. We can make any $200 printer print "perfectly and quickly", what's your point? People were printing at 300mm/s before going 100+ was normal in Prusas. My first printer was an Elegoo, and honestly gave me less issues than my first Prusa as I tuned it in to go fast.
We are expressing our opinions, because we can.
Nobody is forced to make an update.
Yeah, you pretty much have to because it's like fomo, and there are legitimate quality reasons. People want the best for their buck and feel ripped off when in a few months they have to pay for an upgrade to something they just paid $1000 for because the original had unresolved issues that NEEDED updating for quality reasons. These releases haven't been in good taste at all
RE:
The MK4 also prints perfectly and quickly.
yawn, so does every other printer on the market, printing "perfectly and quickly" means nothing other than the settings in your slicer and proper tuning. Tell us you're an amateur in printing without telling us. We can make any $200 printer print "perfectly and quickly", what's your point? People were printing at 300mm/s before going 100+ was normal in Prusas. My first printer was an Elegoo, and honestly gave me less issues than my first Prusa as I tuned it in to go fast.
We are expressing our opinions, because we can.
Nobody is forced to make an update.
Yeah, you pretty much have to because it's like fomo, and there are legitimate quality reasons. People want the best for their buck and feel ripped off when in a few months they have to pay for an upgrade to something they just paid $1000 for because the original had unresolved issues that NEEDED updating for quality reasons. These releases haven't been in good taste at all
Yawn, same old argument, too expensive and lags behind everyone else. Yet complains when they quickly update.
I get the impression you wouldn't be happy no matter what. So why are you here on the forum? The original post was wondering who was going to update.... Not what you didn't like about Prusa.
The argument gets so old, if you don't like their offerings and they are too expensive, there are lots of other players in the game. So why waste your time here on a Prusa user forum? Go spread your dislike for Prusa on a forum for the printers you like and pat one another on the back.
RE: Whose upgrading to Core One?
I simply believe that you are fundamentally wrong here.
Did someone hold a gun to your head and force you to buy a Prusa?
When I buy an MK4, I know what it can and can't do. The device works perfectly and I pay contribution X for it, then what do I want to complain about.
Has anyone claimed that a cheaper printer can't do that now?
Perhaps there are other reasons for choosing a device.
Whether there's a stupid lamp or a camera doesn't interest me in my decision.
It seems to be essential for you.
But showing up in the Prusa forum and everyone saying how stupid they are.
I would never think of doing that in the Bambulab forum.
The market decides, quite simply.
If everyone only buys Chinese junk, that's all there is.
RE: Whose upgrading to Core One?
The MK4 also prints perfectly and quickly.
yawn, so does every other printer on the market, printing "perfectly and quickly" means nothing other than the settings in your slicer and proper tuning. Tell us you're an amateur in printing without telling us. We can make any $200 printer print "perfectly and quickly", what's your point? People were printing at 300mm/s before going 100+ was normal in Prusas. My first printer was an Elegoo, and honestly gave me less issues than my first Prusa as I tuned it in to go fast.
We are expressing our opinions, because we can.
Nobody is forced to make an update.
Yeah, you pretty much have to because it's like fomo, and there are legitimate quality reasons. People want the best for their buck and feel ripped off when in a few months they have to pay for an upgrade to something they just paid $1000 for because the original had unresolved issues that NEEDED updating for quality reasons. These releases haven't been in good taste at all
You’re contradicting yourself, here. You say the current Prusa printers can print perfectly and quickly, but also that there’s legitimate performance reasons why upgrades are absolutely necessary to do. Which is it?
Certainly, the newer versions are better(faster even than the MK4, better temperature control, with the Core One including both heated and cooled chamber, giving easier results with a wider range of materials), but that’s a far cry from such upgrades being mandatory. Meanwhile, these give an upgrade path to both the currently announced and future printers they make without having to just throw away the old printer and buy a new one full price.
RE:
You’re contradicting yourself, here. You say the current Prusa printers can print perfectly and quickly, but also that there’s legitimate performance reasons why upgrades are absolutely necessary to do. Which is it?
The other guy said it prints perfectly and quickly not me, which is just a newbie statement, since any printer can be made to print "perfectly" no matter the price, which is what I said. "perfect" is also subjective based on requirements. But yes, why do we need MK4s, or Core if it's so perfect? Well for one, having an enclosure is very necessary for even more "perfect" printing, consistently.. which is why it was already a default on every other printer in the last couple years before Prusa decided to integrate it on this new one.
The cost of upgrading is high and you're paying more than the base new printer too.. (let's not forget you pay shipping overseas), and it's a time investment to take apart the printer every time. Just not worth it
Did someone hold a gun to your head and force you to buy a Prusa?
Chinese junk
It sounds like you're biased and a bit defensive. This "chinese junk" is way cheaper but the same in quality lol, when Bambus perform "perfectly" as well, as you like to say. Got a friend that has one, they do the same thing. So you're not thinking rationally at all just based on that statement. I'm not a fan of the chinese government, but sorry, this has nothing to do with that. The reality is that other brands are going to dominate the market over Prusa. This post is asking "who's buying a Prusa Core?" and my answer is I'm not, and shared why. Originally a year ago I bought a product expecting to not feel outdated in a year, or at least get some "upgrades" heavily discounted.. but I can now see the mistake. That's all. No further discussion needed.
But showing up in the Prusa forum and everyone saying how stupid they are.
No one called anyone stupid.. I don't care what forum this is, I'll call out anything I see. Go ahead.. type in Bambu forum, what does that mean to me? If there's something negative to say about them(which there is, but this isn't Bambu forum), I'll do it before you lol, what do I care? Criticism is meant to be shared. I'm not some hivemind soft fanboy that cares deeply about brand loyalty and is scared to speak my mind..
I'd like to see Prusa succeed rather than fall off, which happens with silence. Plenty of shared sentiment out there like mine, and Prusa realized it, and that's why they're releasing the new Core with enclosure. let's not forget how they scrambled to release Input shaping because others were beating them to it. Fin.
RE: Whose upgrading to Core One?
LOL! This has turned into a Mac vs PC argument. Mac — overpriced, lacking features, but easier to use and considered more reliable long term. PC — generally less expensive, more features, often less polished and less reliable long term.
In the end the market will decide, like it did with Mac vs PC. Prusa doesn’t appear to be in trouble financially. They no doubt have a much smaller share of the market, like Mac but like the Mac, I think Prusa will be around for a while.
Isn’t it wonderful to have choices?
RE: Whose upgrading to Core One?
@Geri,
It's pretty clear that you have an axe to grind here, and the narrow reasons you provide give that away. People have been using these MK series printers for actual production for years without significant issues and even [gasp] without enclosures. They were the original tool printer, requiring the very little tinkering when compared to the available options for years. I know someone who has been using Prusa printers for some really incredible custom engineering jobs over the past many years in his small business. He simply doesn't require speed because he can trust printing items overnight. What he does definitely needs is dimensional consistency for fitment in his complex multi-part designs. He also requires privacy, and the ability to keep his designs to himself. He hasn't felt compelled by FOMO to upgrade his MK3S printers to anything newer because they are working perfectly. I think it's important to consider that the things that are important to one person or business simply may not be important to others. For you, it's really vital for a printer to have an integrated overhead light, and your emotions are adversely effected when a company releases a printer without one, compelling you to share your grievances on their user forum. Different companies have been providing divergent feature options to different types of customers for years, and customers have been considering these options and choosing differently than each other for years. My life isn't effected at all if you make a personal choice for a product that competes with the product that I chose. I hope that your choice meets your needs, and that you feel like it is was worth your money. Things aren't perfect though, and not everyone fully considers or understands their needs at the time, or the needs change, and a purchased product falls short. We can own that mis-calculation, learn from it, and choose differently next time. Narrow mindedness however, is demonstrated when after making a choice, we require the validation from other people in order to feel happy about it, and assume that those others, who likely have vastly different needs than we do, should have made the same choice we did.
This is a foundational concept, and is important to consider if you want to eventually find contentment in a world where everyone is unique. It's of course also possible that you have other motives in coming here, we can't know if that is the case. If so, there are terms to describe people who follow certain patterns of online behavior, and they are ultimately ignored or blocked. I try hard not to assume ulterior motives and I believe ultimately that this community, as well as all enthusiast communities, are at their healthiest when people start by assuming the best in each other until proven otherwise. Ultimately I hope you find a printer that truly meets your needs, and then, reach the point where your confidence in that choice can stand on it's own, not requiring the affirmation of random strangers on an online forum who have chosen differently. We have more choices now than ever before, so lets exercise the freedom we have, and try to allow others to do the same.
-J
RE: Whose upgrading to Core One?
I'm just happy to not have to worry about what effect a possible trade war between the US and China will have on availability of parts for my XL and MK4S or availability of the Original Prusa Core One kit I intend to buy next year.
Unless, of course, people who would, except for the trade war, have bought a Chinese-made printer wind up having to buy Prusa printers instead. Hmmm ... maybe I should get my Core One kit pre-order in ASAP?
RE: Whose upgrading to Core One?
It sounds like you're biased and a bit defensive. This "chinese junk" is way cheaper but the same in quality lol,
Yes, I am biased towards Chinese products, not the people there.
Because I know Chinese machines, outside of printers, and I know what quality they use.
I also don't like the mechanical design of the Bambulab Corexy.
Of course you didn't literally say everyone who buys a Prusa is stupid.
But if I go to a brand forum and write why do you buy an overpriced Prusa when a Bambulab can do everything much better and cheaper, you are saying exactly that.
To see your own opinion as the only one that makes you happy and to accuse everyone else of ignorance. But not being able to imagine that other people have deliberately opted for an expensive product without getting any added value in your opinion.
RE: Whose upgrading to Core One?
Posts tend to get heated when there are comparison topics 😋 . Its fun and sad at the same time. But to the point. I initiated a thread in prusas forum yesterday when a friend of mine asked me why to go to core one when is double the price from a p1s/ams combo. I wanted opinions because i could not give him a answer that benefited prusa .
But about the upgrade path. I never had BL and im not planning on buying one soon. Before the XL my mk3 and sl1 followed all the upgrade paths to mk3s+ and sl1s. Yes it doesn't make sense for an average user to update to core one from a MK3S. BUT... first of all if i had a printer farm with let say 10 printers upgrading my printers instead of buying new ones would bring quite the savings. If i had BL and when to upgrade the only option would be to buy new ones. Yes there are cheaper and of similar quality. I dont know though how easy is for a small business to change their workflow and slicer. On the other hand if their manage to sell their printers upgrade savings become void. But the option is there. You have the choice. You dont have this with BL. I prefer to have a choice that for my circumstances i wont choose that not have one at all.
On the other hand i understand the frustration of buying a printer and a few weeks later comes out of the blue a new better one with all the bells and whistles i wanted on my latest order. Well yes it sucks. Especially if you waited 6 weeks to get your machine and by the time it arrived here comes an upgrade which would prevent you from placing the original order. And this NEW upgrade kit makes the whole printer overpriced. On the other hand if you waited for the new kit your order would be delayed for another x weeks. This how prusa works. If they announce that core one was coming no one would order mk4s and would complain about possible delays. Remember XL?
In the end of the day decide what you want. Do you need to print with an enclosure?. Do you need a camera etc. If yes forget about sentimentality and go NOW for a company that offers that and the price/features/quality ratio is acceptable for you. Buy it now and dont wait for the "best" upgrade path. The sooner you get it the longer you work with it. If not and are happy to print petg and pla with an mk4 and the workflow of prusa is more important for you then stay with prusa. They are quality printers.
BUT lastly if you are one of the percentage of people that are/were a faithful prusa customer and bought or upgraded mk4s bought the extra enclosure for the hefty sum etc and a couple of weeks later it came the core one then is good lesson for you that companies are designed to make money. When you buy something forget about sentimentality and look for the best offer FOR YOU. You want an enclosed printer do a market research and buy the best one that fits your needs. Personally i would and i didn't ever buy a prusa enclosure for my mk3s+. My wants where a toolchanger. There wasn't an enclosed one when i bought the XL so i bought their enclosure later. If there is a new 5th printer with a better enclosure next month i will not be pissed about it. If it wasn't for me waiting on the XL and mk4s came out im not sure that i would choose it over a fully enclosed p1s with carbon filter. I mean if im not mistaken the hepa filtering on core is optional. If BL becomes stratasys in the future then i'll weight it on my future buys.
As a final note yes i was slightly pissed when for years their praised the .6 nozzles vs the .4 on the XL. And when it FINALLY ARRIVED it they decided after a few weeks that the 0.6 nozzle suck and you better get 0.4 ones , which they included with the new ones. And i had already bought and replaced my 0.6 ones with 0.4. Or when the printed extruder parts with petg and when it proved later that it was a mistake the shipped pccf. I mean come on why print them in petg in the first place. Or is it so expensive to add them as a free addons on all your first buyers when they place another order? Its a 5k printer. But i understood that i wanted a toolchanger. So much that i didnt want to wait for the product to be polished out and mature and pre-ordered it. If there is a need to change it in a few years and find that BL for example has a toolchanger with similar features with the latest prusa and its better for me quality/price-wise i'll go for it and NO i will not believe that i should stay with prusa bercause they are chinese, they MAY become stratasys or they believe in aliens. I will not buy prusas upgrade kit if the price doesnt justify it.
RE: Whose upgrading to Core One?
Everything you say is right. Everyone has their own reason for buying something.
I can think of many reasons not to buy a Bambulab.
Nevertheless, I can understand why someone buys one.
It wouldn't occur to me to criticize the disadvantages of a Bambulab in a Bambulab forum and suggest buying a Prusa.
I think the people there have made up their minds and had good
reasons for their decision.
It's different when someone asks me.
If someone is new to 3D printing, I will explain the advantages and disadvantages of every product, and Bambulab also has disadvantages.
There are also other Chinese products that are as good as Bambulab but still much more open.
Ultimately, competition is good for us consumers. Manufacturers have to make more of an effort.
RE: Whose upgrading to Core One?
If it will ever exists it will be probably a Core Four. I think that the standard x size is not enough for 5 nextruder side to side, but probably 4 can be fitted.
But considering that only a Nextruder costs around 305€, a CoreFour Kit will cost 1.049+(304*3) = 1.961€ 😦
So, good for you, but I don't think I could afford 2.000€ for a CoreXY CoreFour.... if it will ever exist 😉
I think I'll wait for the Core Five to be released 😎
RE: Whose upgrading to Core One?
Lol, some topics makes me remember forum fights between Nikon vs Canon, with the difference that both are great trademarks, with some Great Products, some not so, and some just garbage.
Going back to 3d printers, I guess we all have our reasons to justify our position and which is good for me it bad for another person and so on. Which is important that we are free to choose what we want based on our experience or what we believe.
Returning to the main topic...
No, I will not upgrade to Core One, just because I will buy a new one, someday, when the kit version arrises, just cause I love to assemble 3d printer as many other things I love to assemble all related with mechanics.
Best Regards,