Question re: nozzle adapter vs full nozzle assembly  

RE: Question re: nozzle adapter vs full nozzle assembly

The adapter costs pretty much the same as a standard nextruder nozzle. Doesn't make sense to use it for anything but specialty nozzles like ruby, tc, cht, etc.

RE: Question re: nozzle adapter vs full nozzle assembly

I may not understand how this works. But based on the product pages for the assembly vs the adapter the assembly is a single nozzle (e.g. 4mm). The adapter would allow me to simply screw on a different nozzle. So if I want 3 different nozzles the cost is 3X the whole assembly but if I go the adapter route it is one adapter plus 3 cheap brass nozzles. So about $90 if using whole assemblies vs $30 for the adapter and around 3x$7 for the brass nozzles for a total of $51. Prices approximate. Also at least at the moment the 6mm assembly isn’t in stock. 

Maybe best to rephrase my question and set cost aside. Is there any functional or performance disadvantage of using an adapter with a 4mm brass nozzle vs the 4mm assembly.

RE: Question re: nozzle adapter vs full nozzle assembly

Posted by: @weak

The adapter costs pretty much the same as a standard nextruder nozzle. Doesn't make sense to use it for anything but specialty nozzles like ruby, tc, cht, etc.

Since I am interested in this discussion, why do you say that?

Still looking to learn and see various ways of changeover first hand, but "currently" it looks like a advantageous methodology to use the nextruder adaptor and old style nozzles VS having different sized nextruder tips. Possibly both for cost over time and potentially ease of use.

I am hoping someone with the hardware demonstrate those options Soon, and clarifies the Pros/Cons, as I would love to get ahead of the curve.

Also thinking there will be a infection point for how much swapping of Only tips VS building out a full assembly , and have not gotten a good grasp on that either.

Would really love to see someone good at those types of discussions do a deep dive and discus all of the various options and variations on what is avalible and why a specific use case might want to consider one concept over the other for time and price or ease of use.

If there is a way to build out full assemblies in a cost effective way, I would love to learn about it, tool less is preferred (which is why its a shame its not set up like a Revo IMO)

But have no problem looking at all the options. Even thinking about "subsidizing" the cost of a assembly by making my own aluminum heaterblocks.

Would love to hear more on the topic, and why one way may be advantageous for certain people over other methods.

RE: Question re: nozzle adapter vs full nozzle assembly

I like the adapter because I can use all my nozzles. Maybe having one Standard nozzle (0.4). Also due to the new design, the change of the nozzle is much easier. You will no longer be afraid of braking the heatbreak (happend to me one time).

RE: Question re: nozzle adapter vs full nozzle assembly

Maybe best to rephrase my question and set cost aside. Is there any functional or performance disadvantage of using an adapter with a 4mm brass nozzle vs the 4mm assembly.

Convenience. You can cold swap the nextruder nozzles, pretty much like a revo nozzle.

RE: Question re: nozzle adapter vs full nozzle assembly

I don't know why Prusa don't just supply the adapter already fitted as standard. That way you are free to change the nozzle to suit, it can't be that hard to switch just the nozzle whilst in the printer. Then have the assembly unit as an add on extra.

RE: Question re: nozzle adapter vs full nozzle assembly

Posted by: @stuart1949

I don't know why Prusa don't just supply the adapter already fitted as standard. That way you are free to change the nozzle to suit, it can't be that hard to switch just the nozzle whilst in the printer. Then have the assembly unit as an add on extra.

Being able to take the full assembly off "quickly" seems like it will be the key to making that viable.

Not having to worry about twisting/damaging the wiring at the component entry point (and even if it is damaged, relatively easy replacement with ♥️board), being able to grab both the heat break and nozzle, I dont see why a cold swap would be prohibitive. It could relatively easily have a torque spec now that it can be fully constrained to optimize the interface.

Makes me wonder if a slight biased taper like a AN fitting would have helped seal that interface if there are any concerns of material seepage "gluing" the components together.

Still interested how each of those variations are going to work out in reality, and which direction to go with Price VS Ease of use considered.

RE: Question re: nozzle adapter vs full nozzle assembly

The behaviour of Nextruder nozzle is like the REVO nozzle: both two keep the melted filament inside, so there is no contact between the melted filament and the heated block thread, that is always well clean or with conductive grease. As result both two can be unscrewed cold and replaced.

I did not purchased any adapter because this break the rules, and will allow melted filament particles to dirty the thread, since sooner or later the two parts (adapter and old nozzle) will be mounted wrong, not in contact, and the melted filament will dirt the thread making difficult the change, and reverting me back to the old time of the old MK3 nozzles hot changes procedures. I want to be able to quick swap nozzle without the hassle of the hot swap and filament dirt.

RE:

So after a few weeks of printing with the default 0.6 mm nozzle I did my first nozzle swap on my XL today, installing the adapter with a 0.4mm tungsten carbide nozzle. Here's my thinking:

There are basically four ways to swap nozzles.

#1 is using the adapter, leaving the heatbreak and heater block in place. Basically the same procedure as changing nozzles on a Mk3S or Mini. It still requires a wrench to hold the heater block in place, while the other hand removes/installs nozzles. However, the way the heater block is configured on the XL, it is a lot easier to get the Prusa "universal" wrench in there, compared to the Mk3S. Still requires hot tightening, as per Prusa instructions. Key advantages: you can use ANY nozzles, and no need to partially disassemble the hotend. Main disadvantage: Potential for a leaking nozzle.

#2 is replacing the nozzle in the heater block, using Prusa nozzles. No opportunity for leaking nozzles. Downside: Partial disassembly required. Remove the thermistor and heater wires, loosen the hotend assembly screw, pull out the hotend, unscrew the nozzle from the heater block, then reverse everything with the new nozzle. It actually goes a lot quicker than it sounds. And it should allow for cold swaps. Another downside: Only works with Prusa nozzles, obviously.

#3 is replacing the whole hotend assembly. So have nozzles of different sizes prepared in their own heater block/thermistor/heater element assembly. Disassembly/assembly as under #2, but no need to unscrew the nozzle and insert a new one, just swap in the new hotend assembly. Same downside as #2, only works with Prusa nozzles. Plus, at this point you can't buy the heater block with its heat element and thermistor.

#4 is a blend of #1 and #3: Get several adapters and heater blocks and have preassembled hotends with different nozzles ready. Same disassembly/assembly as #3 but you can use ANY nozzle. Same downsides as #1, plus relies on the eventual availability of separate heater blocks.

I change nozzle size frequently, often several times a day, so this is an important consideration for me. Plus, all my current printers have tungsten carbide nozzles in 0.25, 0.4, 0.6, and 0.8 mm sizes, and I have little desire to go back to brass.

Before I went through my first nozzle swap on the XL, I assumed I'd go with #4 long term, pending the general availability of separate heater blocks. But now I'm not so sure anymore. The required partial disassembly of the hotend is not a big deal but still. Given that the heater block is much more easily accessible, I may just go with #1 and swap nozzles leaving the adapter in place. Okay, it requires hot tightening but I never found this to be an issue. I have to unload filament anyway. 

I don't feel there's a "best" way. I admit, I'm spoiled by the Dragon hotends on my Mk3S and Mini printers. Simple, single handed nozzle swaps. Each approach listed here has advantages and disadvantages but involves more than the Dragon. But importantly, whatever approach you choose, the Nextruder removes the most time-consuming aspect of ANY nozzle swap, the recalibration of Live Z!

RE: Question re: nozzle adapter vs full nozzle assembly

Mmmmmhhhh..... 🙄  I started to worry about the JST plastic nozzle wires connectors, that are not designed for continuous plug & unplug. It is easy to wear them out and have faulty contacts. If this is the process I would have expected a complete different type of connector (e.g. an heavy duty).

RE: Question re: nozzle adapter vs full nozzle assembly

Another update on the XL nozzle swap situation: Had a major leak with the nozzle adapter today. I'm moving this thread over to the XL hardware forum though, as it feels increasingly out of place in the Mk4 forum even though it's the same nozzle: https://forum.prusa3d.com/forum/original-prusa-hardware-firmware-and-software-help/blob-of-death-with-nozzle-adaptor/