Anyone else worried about bed adhesion  

RE: Anyone else worried about bed adhesion

So far I've printed PLA, PETG, ASA, and PC on my MK4.  The new bed leveling does an astonishingly good job.  I had my doubts at first.  I was especially worried about any filament oozing out of the nozzle or just some piece there, but the leveling process actually "cleans" the nozzle if it suspects something is there.  Every material on every surface (I've tried 3 surfaces so far, 2*smooth, textured, all Prusa).  First layer quish is spot on and haven't seen any warping yet even without an enclosure.  I've been pleasantly surprised in this regard.

Posted by: @darmans_props

Anyone else worried about bed adhesion with the MK4?  I am concerned that with the upgrade in speed, the bed will shake every part lose before the part can finish. I already have that problem with both my MK3 printers and both my Minis now on certain parts even if I have a ton of glue on the beds. 

I ordered a MK4, but am not convinced I made the right choice. I may have should have waited a bit to see what others though once they started getting put through there paces.

RE: Anyone else worried about bed adhesion

Posted by: @addohm

So far I've printed PLA, PETG, ASA, and PC on my MK4.  The new bed leveling does an astonishingly good job.  I had my doubts at first.  I was especially worried about any filament oozing out of the nozzle or just some piece there, but the leveling process actually "cleans" the nozzle if it suspects something is there.  Every material on every surface (I've tried 3 surfaces so far, 2*smooth, textured, all Prusa).  First layer quish is spot on and haven't seen any warping yet even without an enclosure.  I've been pleasantly surprised in this regard.

Posted by: @darmans_props

Anyone else worried about bed adhesion with the MK4?  I am concerned that with the upgrade in speed, the bed will shake every part lose before the part can finish. I already have that problem with both my MK3 printers and both my Minis now on certain parts even if I have a ton of glue on the beds. 

I ordered a MK4, but am not convinced I made the right choice. I may have should have waited a bit to see what others though once they started getting put through there paces.

 

Sounds promising!!!!!

RE: Anyone else worried about bed adhesion

Posted by: @darmans_props

Anyone else worried about bed adhesion with the MK4?  I am concerned that with the upgrade in speed, the bed will shake every part lose before the part can finish. I already have that problem with both my MK3 printers and both my Minis now on certain parts even if I have a ton of glue on the beds. 

I ordered a MK4, but am not convinced I made the right choice. I may have should have waited a bit to see what others though once they started getting put through there paces.

No, but I also don’t get all the posts I see about bed adhesion problems. I had one really long part on my Mini pull up at the ends…and damaged the PEI coating slightly when it did. I can see why, there was just a ton of tension in that part. Needs a better design. 

Otherwise, never had any issues.

Are you sure your beds are clean, and your first layer is set right? I see a LOT of problems with first layers in pictures people post about parts not sticking. Also NOT saying that’s your issue. Just double checking.

Finally, isn’t glue used to lessen adhesion? I know glue sticks are used for PETG on smooth sheets to reduce adhesion because PETG on smooth would stick too good. I’ve not used it. I’ve only printed PLA on smooth sheets, or PETG on satin. Never anything added to the sheet. 

RE: Anyone else worried about bed adhesion

Posted by: @jseyfert3

Finally, isn’t glue used to lessen adhesion? I know glue sticks are used for PETG on smooth sheets to reduce adhesion because PETG on smooth would stick too good. I’ve not used it. I’ve only printed PLA on smooth sheets, or PETG on satin. Never anything added to the sheet. 

No, you can't generalize that like that. The Kores is more of a release agent but it can still help a bit with adhesion during print too. Other sticks however are very much adhesion agents. Many of them are temperatuer dependent and release below 60°C and attach very firmly at 80-90°C.

I am using these adhesives nowadays for practically every material, even PLA and print everything on my smooth sheet. I do agree that one does not have to do that but I had only good experience even though I basically stopped using IPA or brims, no matter what I print, since I use adhesive. It sticks like hell during print and releases better afterwards when cooled down. And that with an old smooth sheet which showed deteriorated adhesion even after thorough wash with detergant and subsequent IPA and even some acetone once.

RE: Anyone else worried about bed adhesion

I haven't had to use glue stick or slurry for my MK4 yet.  Build plate is okay so far, no adhesion issues.  ASA\PC always worries me, but removing it while its still warm does the trick for me.  That said, I do everything I can to avoid slurry at this point because it does invite destruction to the PEI.  If I HAVE to use some form of help, I've found my best results from a water\wood glue slurry.  Perfectly safe, easy to clean, and non destructive.

RE: Anyone else worried about bed adhesion

I am using adhesives now for more than a year on basically every print, using the smooth sheet for everything. Namely Magigoo PC or Dimafix (Dimafix can adhere to strongly to some materials, hence I use Magigoo PC for those), depending on the material. I haven't seen any hint of PEI damage so far. Both adhesives are also super easy to clean, just rinse of in warm water for a few seconds. 

RE:

I am using adhesives now for more than a year on basically every print, using the smooth sheet for everything. Namely Magigoo PC or Dimafix (Dimafix can adhere to strongly to some materials, hence I use Magigoo PC for those), depending on the material. I haven't seen any hint of PEI damage so far. Both adhesives are also super easy to clean, just rinse off in warm water for a few seconds. 

RE: Anyone else worried about bed adhesion

Hmmmm....  I don't have any adhesion issues with my Mk3S if do my part (good squish, right temps), but I'm just printing PLA and PETG.  Are folks experiencing signficant adhesion issues?  I've been printing for 4+ years, but only active on the forum recently. I assumed the most people didn't use adhesives with the PEI flex plates. 

RE: Anyone else worried about bed adhesion

Vision Miner is amazing as an adhesive / release agent.  It's like 3D Printing magic. 

RE: Anyone else worried about bed adhesion

Posted by: @addohm

So far I've printed PLA, PETG, ASA, and PC on my MK4.  The new bed leveling does an astonishingly good job.  I had my doubts at first.  I was especially worried about any filament oozing out of the nozzle or just some piece there, but the leveling process actually "cleans" the nozzle if it suspects something is there.  Every material on every surface (I've tried 3 surfaces so far, 2*smooth, textured, all Prusa).  First layer quish is spot on and haven't seen any warping yet even without an enclosure.  I've been pleasantly surprised in this regard.

Posted by: @darmans_props

Anyone else worried about bed adhesion with the MK4?  I am concerned that with the upgrade in speed, the bed will shake every part lose before the part can finish. I already have that problem with both my MK3 printers and both my Minis now on certain parts even if I have a ton of glue on the beds. 

I ordered a MK4, but am not convinced I made the right choice. I may have should have waited a bit to see what others though once they started getting put through there paces.

 

Do you have any photos of your first layers? This is our #1 reason for switching to an MK4 (hasn't arrived yet) and I'm hoping it's as amazing as it claims. 

Our MK3S+ first layers are good on about 20% of the plate, but it's frustrating to have it inconsistent. 

RE: Anyone else worried about bed adhesion

Unfilled PC and Nylon of any kind are issues for me.  Often, glue on the smooth will help for nylon.  At the very worst, I’ll print a brim and use scotch tape to stick the brim to the surface.

99% of my prints are PETG, and very few problems- with quality and DRY filament- on the powder coated panel and Satin sheet.

RE: Anyone else worried about bed adhesion

Printed PLA, PETG, TPU and Steelfil. Never had any adhesion problems either provided the beds clean and Z adjust set correctly, even for very small bed contact parts they are very tall.

Well there not all true.. TPU sticks TOO well.. and that’s when I’d use a glue stick.

RE:

i am highly satisfied with a standard glue stick from the near office store/drugstore - tesa glue stick, 2,60 euro for the big one. no problems with adhesion anymore and not so much fuzz like with bluetape (which works well too - especially on the satin sheet). but: glue stick and blue tape leave patterns on prints with large plain surfaces, that's the downside. since i noticed that: maybe I should look again on my printing temperatures and z-level-calibration... because my filaments (several pla and petg) barely stick on the smooth and the satin sheet (therefore the adhesion helpers) but for others it works. hmmmm

RE: Anyone else worried about bed adhesion

Posted by: @milehigh3der

Unfilled PC and Nylon of any kind are issues for me.  Often, glue on the smooth will help for nylon.  At the very worst, I’ll print a brim and use scotch tape to stick the brim to the surface.

99% of my prints are PETG, and very few problems- with quality and DRY filament- on the powder coated panel and Satin sheet.

Looks like Prusa now sells a Nylon-specific flexible plate, in case you weren't already aware of it.

https://www.prusa3d.com/product/double-sided-powder-coated-pa-nylon-spring-steel-sheet/

RE: Anyone else worried about bed adhesion

Yes, there was an bundle offer a few weeks ago together with a spool of Prusament PA11 CF that I jumped on when I was ordering other stuff. Not tried it yet because I had just installed the Revo Six on my MK3S+ and I have no hardened nozzle for that one yet. Perhaps I'll try it next week when the MK4 has its own enclosure. I have the nozzle adapter for the Nextruder and hardened V6 nozzles.

RE:

Posted by: @michael-smith

Hmmmm....  I don't have any adhesion issues with my Mk3S if do my part (good squish, right temps), but I'm just printing PLA and PETG.  Are folks experiencing signficant adhesion issues?  I've been printing for 4+ years, but only active on the forum recently. I assumed the most people didn't use adhesives with the PEI flex plates. 

I think most people don't. I started using them after roughly 2 years of using the same smooth PEI sheet. Adhesion had reduced significantly, no matter how much I washed with detergent, IPA or whatever. I also gave Aceton as last resort a chance. Polishing with fine grit paper was something I didn't want to do. I ordered a new sheet and that one worked splendidly again. Yet, I didn't want to throw away the old sheet and with adhesive it worked even better than the new one. I don't need a brim for almost anything now, no matter how challenging the bottom layer. And I can short cut on the IPA wiping too. Not needed with adhesive. 

What brought me to adhesives was PC-Blend which is officially recommended to be printed with btw. 

RE: Anyone else worried about bed adhesion

interesting experiences for me (first printer, less than a year old). i could imagine, that blue tape also could help - pla prints stick very well on this, if you can live with the pattern at the bottom layer (lines from the tape stripes).

i think i would do the same with old sheets in the future.

RE: Anyone else worried about bed adhesion

Posted by: @thejiral

 

Polishing with fine grit paper was something I didn't want to do.

Prusa recommends using a dry kitchen sponge to reactivate the smooth bed plate.

RE: Anyone else worried about bed adhesion

^^ Hm, ok, maybe I'll try that out.

But I really like the worry free world of using adhesives. The whole process is just more robust. You don't have to care about being superclean, about IPA or when it is time to do some proper detergent wash or anything and plates don't degrade either in any meaningful  way.