RE: Prusa Badges and Rewards... What you want to know!
The problem with that Diem is that morals are not an absolute, neither are societal norms on a global scale and definitions of sensible always have varied from person to person. Please don’t go around trying to push a single set of definitions that you are comfortable with onto others.
@neophyl: You're right of course but this is the sort of thing that gets lawyers a bad reputation.
Cheerio,
RE: Prusa Badges and Rewards... What you want to know!
I commented on the concept on page 4 of this topic(I think), but recent posts forced me to logon and post.
Any one that thinks testing is stupid, ridiculous, or a waste of time are... how to put this....WRONG! You, as designer, publisher, or seller of 3D printed things have a moral and maybe a legal obligation to test your "product" as well as to clearly describe how to construct and the use of such. As an example, I made a table ornament for Christmas and it was very nice. Why test? Because it fell on the floor and if a toddler, or pet had put the piece that broke off in their mouth, it was big enough to get stuck in the throat and I would have been responsible for injury or death. A small weak spot was the cause. The next iteration was tested by throwing it against the floor many times. It did not break.
What if the tip of that untested funnel broke off and caused damage or injury?
IANAL, but yes, under that specific scenario, it's possible that you might have potentially been held liable, because it was something that you physically made. If, OTOH, Sumdood designed that object, made it available as a free download on a third party website such as Printables, and then you downloaded and made it, the liability is still yours and not Sumdood's. You have no legal relationship with Sumdood, nor any expectation of safety or fitness for purpose, so the liability chain should stop with you (although courts do goofy things on occasion). Different story if you hired Sumdood to design your table ornament or otherwise purchased the right to use the design from him.
Yeah, if you are going to post a file to Printables or elsewhere you should probably test it, but at the end of the day you have absolutely zero control over how it is used or misused. Quality control and evaluation of suitability for purpose are entirely the responsibility of the end user.
RE: Prusa Badges and Rewards... What you want to know!
@neophyl: You're right of course but this is the sort of thing that gets lawyers a bad reputation.
Cheerio,
I think the general consensus of most people is that lawyers get lawyers a bad reputation. 🤣
RE: Prusa Badges and Rewards... What you want to know!
I think we may be talking at crossed purposes here.
@Diem said all models should be tested for a year. I replied that was ridiculous to test a funnel for that length of time (not that things shouldn't be tested). Although when did pour stuff in one end and it came out the other I called that a "success".
@peter-h
Diem has his view and I respect him for standing by it. I wholeheartedly believe that a design posted for others should be tested. No compromise on that position. I also believe that detailed instructions should be posted along with the model and said instructions should be followed when creating object to be tested.
At least you determined that the funnel fulfilled it's basic purpose. 👍
As for testing my Personal Safety Signs. Yes I did. They were pr4inted using instructions I published. I don't have access to a materials testing lab, but I have some very hard surfaces and hand. So I threw representative samples with force so that the corners struck the surface. I repeated it until I verified that corner struck at least a couple of dozen times. No visible sign of fracturing. I don't have access to and x-ray or any other scanning device to check deeper. By coincidence Mother Nature decided to help me. I had a sign with about six hangers below it on my front door and she decided to deliver a wind storm with 70-75 mph winds. It was a loud night with them whipping against the house, but the all survived the beating.
You got me on this one. Since they were designed as hangers for doorknobs, I never thought about someone nailing or screwing them to a wall I will address this.
Testing. Yes. Within reasonable limit and with end use in mind.
Design robustness. What is it's intended use? Better to be on the side of stronger.
In closing this post:
- I did not intend to point out anyone, but "funnel" was embedded in my brain and I couldn't purge it.
- Searching through Printables I found a lot of published models with detailed printing instructions and weight limits and other details like print orientation. Kudos to those designers/publishers. It would b nice if PR randomly rewarded the designers of quality, well documented models. t might help keep the quality of Printables high.
- I also found many load bearing models with no print instructions, limits or print orientation. My advice to people new to 3D printing would be to avoid these until you have a good understand of he limitations of FDM printing.
- If you carefully design your model, test it, and document it's purpose, print instructions, and limitations, then you have done a good job.
- We can't expect more.
Kenn
Quality is the Journey, not the Destination. My limited prints->
all models should be tested for a year. I replied that was ridiculous to test a funnel for that length of time
No, it seems reasonable. If you bought a funnel that failed within a year you would be justifiably annoyed. Someone downloading and printing one that failed as soon would be likewise annoyed.
pour stuff in one end and it came out the other I called that a "success".
I call that a proof of concept, an alpha test at best.
Does it stay securely in the intended receptacle?
Does it safely contain the intended load or pour?
Does it safely vent air from the receptacle?
As it happens I did once write a parametric funnel generator which has produced funnels that have been in use for over four years. I regard that sort of thing as too trivial to publish as almost anyone can do the same as a first functional design project.
But here it is: (logic unchanged but comments added )
// OpenSCAD Funnel
// editable parameters
lod=120; // large outer dia
sod=18; // stem outer dia
sl=60; // stem length
rh=30; // rim height
thick=2; // wall thickness
// end editable parameters
rdiff=lod/2-sod/2;
$fn=100;
echo();
echo(str("Stem inner diameter = ",sod-(thick*2)));
echo();
difference(){
shape(0);
shape(thick);
}
module shape(diff){
cylinder(r=lod/2-diff,h=rh);
translate([0,0,rh]){
cylinder(r1=lod/2-diff,r2=sod/2-diff,h=rdiff);
}
translate([0,0,rh+rdiff]){
cylinder(r=sod/2-diff,h=sl);
}
}
Just a few lines of scruffy code - but it has been tested.
- and if the parameters are not chosen carefully it fails most of the tests above.
Cheerio,
RE: Prusa Badges and Rewards... What you want to know!
Can we perhaps put this topic to rest? Feels like enough's been said on all sides of the argument 🙂 😇
Formerly known on this forum as @fuchsr -- until all hell broke loose with the forum software...
RE: Prusa Badges and Rewards... What you want to know!
@neophyl: You're right of course but this is the sort of thing that gets lawyers a bad reputation.
Cheerio,
I think the general consensus of most people is that lawyers get lawyers a bad reputation. 🤣
You beat me to it.
Whatever you find to do with your hands, do with all your might!
RE: Prusa Badges and Rewards... What you want to know!
Recently the reward system for makes has ben overhauled. While prusa wants to keep the exact workings of the algorithm a secret, I’m still intrigued by what makes it tick.
The gist of it is that the amount of prusameters awarded for a make is inversely proportional to the amount of makes already uploaded of a certain design. Max amount awarded is still 10 prusameters and the minimum is 1. Other parameters also come into play. According to prusa the system seems to favour people who upload designs vs just makers.
I recently uploaded a Christmas bauble that had no previous makes. I got rewarded 10 meters. I also uploaded a make of universal ornament hangers. It had two previous makes so I expected 7 or so meters. I got 1. It’s a tiny print so I figure that this factors heavily in the amount of meters awarded.
I like this change. It does deter people from spamming small populair prints but gives enough incentive to upload makes anyway. I’m also happy to not have to be ashamed to upload a small make as it does not get rewarded with the full 10 prusameters anyway.;)
RE: Prusa Badges and Rewards... What you want to know!
Same. I just uploaded a make on a model that was the 3rd to be posted. Received 1 prusameter. Previously uploaded a make on a separate model that had ~13 or so makes already; received 7 for that one. Views/Downloads/etc were consistent for the # of makes between them, odd.
Recently the reward system for makes has ben overhauled. While prusa wants to keep the exact workings of the algorithm a secret, I’m still intrigued by what makes it tick.
The gist of it is that the amount of prusameters awarded for a make is inversely proportional to the amount of makes already uploaded of a certain design. Max amount awarded is still 10 prusameters and the minimum is 1. Other parameters also come into play. According to prusa the system seems to favour people who upload designs vs just makers.
I recently uploaded a Christmas bauble that had no previous makes. I got rewarded 10 meters. I also uploaded a make of universal ornament hangers. It had two previous makes so I expected 7 or so meters. I got 1. It’s a tiny print so I figure that this factors heavily in the amount of meters awarded.
I like this change. It does deter people from spamming small populair prints but gives enough incentive to upload makes anyway. I’m also happy to not have to be ashamed to upload a small make as it does not get rewarded with the full 10 prusameters anyway.;)
RE: Prusa Badges and Rewards... What you want to know!
I'm not sure I understand the new changed prusameter reward system, where less is given for popular models.
Last night I uploaded three images (makes) for three models that had only a few downloads and few makes. It gave 10, 8 and 2 prusameter respectively (in that order)...?
Is it because I collect my makes and upload them at the same time?
The models had comparable sizes.
Have a look at my models on Printables.com 😉
RE: Prusa Badges and Rewards... What you want to know!
Maybe because they were all similar models, i.e. bookmarks?
RE: Prusa Badges and Rewards... What you want to know!
Hey, they're just taking the gamification to the next level… Las Vegas style… Play more, hoping to hit the 10 point jackpot!
Formerly known on this forum as @fuchsr -- until all hell broke loose with the forum software...
RE: Prusa Badges and Rewards... What you want to know!
Maybe because they were all similar models, i.e. bookmarks?
You're right, there were bookmarks... Thought it was more exciting that bookmarks came with the book gifts... And I would have printed the models anyway, but might have saved the hassle of uploading and writing text for the pictures.
Have a look at my models on Printables.com 😉
RE: Prusa Badges and Rewards... What you want to know!
I know there are over 100 people out sick at Prusa, but is ANYONE there? I tried to redeem 1050 Prusameters (for 3 spools) over a week ago but no response. How long are the vouchers good for? I feel like now I should redeem right when I get them instead of waiting until I need a couple spools. I need those colors for jobs being sold. Usually vouchers are approved in a couple days.
Hopefully it's because everyone in the factory is working on the XL.
RE: Prusa Badges and Rewards... What you want to know!
I know there are over 100 people out sick at Prusa, but is ANYONE there?
Probably not I'd say! The plague and the holiday season (absenteeism and production/sales demands) are the match from hell. I was just about to put in my order for a voucher too, I think I"ll wait a week or two.
I think it's fair enough that "free" product takes a back seat to paying customers. It must be hard enough to balance the sustainability of this model without having to deal with the abusers of it, all the while keeping peak demand satisfied, so I'll try to be patient...
RE: Prusa Badges and Rewards... What you want to know!
I’m bummed. Did my first 48 hour print and got 7 PrusaMeters. 🥲
https://www.printables.com/model/23859-designer-lithophane-moon-lamp/comments/546996
Mini+MK3S+XL 5 Tool
RE: Prusa Badges and Rewards... What you want to know!
I don't think you should be bummed! You printed a gift for your daughter and received a coupon for a small discount on your next filament order! Where else can you do that? The three Prusameters that made you sad were worth a little over one percent of a spool of filament, let's round it out to 25 cents shall we, and that was for doing something you were going to do anyway?
This is one of the problems I think with offering such a generous reward system - it gets harder to keep everyone happy.
I mean no personal disrespect here, but I am making a positive point I hope. I am surprised at how much flak I see in other places for this company which gives so much back to those who support it! I am yet to see anyone make one post about how disappointed or aggrieved they were that they didn't received anything for downloading stuff from Thingiverse, let alone 25c less than they thought they would get!
Thank-you @Prusa3d and @printablescom your generosity is astonishing!
I’m bummed. Did my first 48 hour print and got 7 PrusaMeters. 🥲
RE: Prusa Badges and Rewards... What you want to know!
😆 it’s ok. It’s not like I’m ready to take the bridge or anything. More sarcasm than anything else.
Yes she has a beautiful gift. Yes the reward system is an awesome idea. Yes it sucks that people gain the system. Yes I think there can be some tweaks to how the system rewards some large/long prints.
My comment is not to be taken as a harsh criticism, just a simple observation to make it better.
Mini+MK3S+XL 5 Tool
RE:
I'm sorry I just don't get it! Filament is like $20 a roll and people are cheating to get one roll of filament. What's wrong with this picture?