MMU3 or INDX  

RE: MMU3 or INDX

Prusa overhauled the firmware and physical sensors, meaning it actually recovers gracefully from errors rather than just "giving up" mid-print. While the INDX is the more elegant, integrated solution for the Core One, the MMU3 is a proven workhorse today if you can't stomach the indefinite wait. Just keep in mind that with any single-nozzle swapper, success still hinges on your filament tip shaping and keeping your dry boxes sorted—but the "constant jamming" days of the MMU2 are largely a thing of the past.

RE: MMU3 or INDX

I would wait, even if it is tough.

I don't have an MMU3, but by all accounts it is working but can be a bit finicky. The "buffer" system to manage retracted filament (open loops in flat cages) takes up extra space and makes loading new filament somewhat tedious. While filament switching during prints is more efficient, regarding both time and filament waste, than Bambu Labs' AMS, the INDX will be much better in both regards. INDX should also handle difficult filaments like TPU better, and will allow you to change nozzle sizes during a print -- if and when the slicer supports that.

Count it as a blessing that you won't be part of the first wave of INDX users (who are definitely bracing themselves for some troubleshooting...), and find some nice single-color models to print for the next couple of months. 🙂   

RE: MMU3 or INDX

Thanks Jürgen. I do like the idea of different nozzle sizes so waiting will be the best option I think. Hopefully the first wave users won't have too many issues.
I got the impression that the batch was sold and had already been delivered and we were just waiting for more stock. Was surprised to see that they hadn't shipped and apparently still working on the final design.

RE: MMU3 or INDX

Yes, it seems that both, Bondtech and Prusa, are still busy. Probably (hopefully!) optimizing the manufacturing process at Bondtech, and certainly finishing the firmware and slicer changes at Prusa. Bondtech support confirmed to me last week that the firmware is still under development, and that specifically they could not say yet how mounting and calibrating a different nozzle would look in detail.

RE: MMU3 or INDX

I said it before, guys, don't hold your breath waiting for the INDX. In all likelihood, it will take quite a long time before it becomes a troublefree reliable product. Besides, when (if) it does, we must realize than adapting/modifying an existing design to this system it will never be as smooth, compact and economical as designing a multitool changer from scratch. See for instance, the infamous Snapmaker U1. It isn't what you'd call a high end model by any means, but seems to work fine, it's small and affordable ( both on initial cost and spares ). INDX systems based on Prusas (or Vorons ) will be really huge machines, specially if fully enclosed. Besides, spool management will be a PITA, I suspect. So much tubing, cabling, spools everywhere and what not. A PITA for everyday work and maintenance. Not my idea of an ergonomic printer.

RE: MMU3 or INDX

Posted by: @artur5

[...] adapting/modifying an existing design to this system it will never be as smooth, compact and economical as designing a multitool changer from scratch. See for instance, the infamous Snapmaker U1. It isn't what you'd call a high end model by any means, but seems to work fine, it's small and affordable ( both on initial cost and spares ). INDX systems based on Prusas (or Vorons ) will be really huge machines, specially if fully enclosed. Besides, spool management will be a PITA, I suspect. So much tubing, cabling, spools everywhere and what not. A PITA for everyday work and maintenance. Not my idea of an ergonomic printer.

Where do you see the difference, in terms of package size and filament management, between the Snapmaker U1 and a Core One with INDX? They both use side-mounted spools as the factory solution, they both use individual curved PTFE tubes on top to guide the filament. (Snapmaker's seem taller than the ones on an INDX-equipped Core One.)

No question that the Snapmaker is cheaper, like all the Chinese options. Regarding performance (speed, print quality), the jury is still out since neither solution is shipping yet.

RE:

The Snapmaker U1 has hit the market already. Lots of reviews and unboxings on the net. Granted that many of these are just marketing hype or addressed to clueless users, but fact is that the machine seems to work without major issues right now. INDX systems who knows when they will be available for real.

Apart from that, IMHO, the main ergonomic difference between a printer designed from scratch to be a multitool changer ( Prusa XL/Snapmaker U1 ) and adapting INDX to existing printers is that the printheads of the XL/U1 are located at the back and the INDX are at the front, which is a big contrivance for accessing the inside of the printer, removing the plates, watching the print jobs or doing maintenance.

The only solution would be to redesign totally the gantry so that the printhead was mounted at the back of the X axis instead of at the front. Not impossible, but I wonder if it’s worth the time/cost involved and it wouldn’t be better to make new machines specifically designed for the INDX from the start and forget adapting current printers,

How would you name those printers ... Prusontech, Bondusa ,Vortech, Bondron ? 😋 

RE: MMU3 or INDX

Speaking of Voron, does anybody have experience with Stealthchanger? For me it's either INDX plus a second Core One (won't touch my current MMU-equipped one as it works just fine). But then, the nagging question: why wait for a year for a "nozzle changer" when I can have a "tool changer" right now? Slightly more expensive, that's OK, but no vendor lock-in on nozzles.

The recent video makes me think - the filament changer mechanism looks absurdly heavy.

RE: MMU3 or INDX

Posted by: @artur5

the printheads of the XL/U1 are located at the back and the INDX are at the front, which is a big contrivance for accessing the inside of the printer, removing the plates, watching the print jobs or doing maintenance.

Regarding physical access to the finished print, I would not expect a big impact. The parked tools do not reach lower than the active nozzle, and only a small bit below the existing LED bar. (I do wonder whether there will be revised chamber lights...) Swapping tools should actually be easier due to the front parking position.  

Visibility of the print in progress is indeed a concern. I am a bit reluctant to go to eight tools on the Core One INDX, which seem to block most of the view through the front door. But four is probably the sweet spot for me anyway, with four spools in a dryer (on a shelf above the printer). 

RE: MMU3 or INDX

I'd go for the MMU3 - it's stable and doesn't have any of the nagging issues that made me constantly babysit my MMU2, and works great with ASA, PETG, and PLA.

Also, it's comparatively cheap, so even if you swap it out in three or six months for an INDX, you can use the time to get used to modeling for multi-material (assuming that you are not doing this already), and establishing a baseline for comparison on performance and quality without breaking the bank.

Just my 0.02 😉