Issues With New Textured Powder-Coated Sheet Build Plate - Delamination Mid-Print
 
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holmburgers
(@holmburgers)
Member
Issues With New Textured Powder-Coated Sheet Build Plate - Delamination Mid-Print

Apologies in advance if this has been covered before - feel free to merge with another topic - first time poster here!

 

Hi All,

I recently purchased a "textured powder-coated sheet" build plate from Prusa to supplement my MK4 and the stock smooth PEI sheet plate that it came with. I have had some rather annoying experiences with this plate so far, and I want to know if there are fixes for what I'm going through.

Long story short, on the first evening of switching to the new plate, I learned that I need to re-calibrate my Z-axis, (which I actually find easier and more convenient than the cursed live Z offset control), but I was admittedly a bit annoyed by the fact that this wasn't stated anywhere on the packaging or product itself, and had to learn it the hard way when my first layer ended up in a giant glob of PETG on my nozzle after about 3 minutes of unattended print time. Although this did seem to solve the problem for a bit, I was puzzled by this, because I thought the MK4's automatic Z probing/leveling protocol would obviate this issue. At any rate, I proceeded to get several successful prints.

So question #1 - should re-calibrating the Z-axis be necessary when switching plates on the MK4? But there's more...

Then, at some point, no matter what I did, I kept getting the same issue - first layer not adhering and getting all sorts of messed up. I started putting skirts on my slices, which helped me pinpoint it faster, and after a long ordeal of searching this forum, trouble-shooting, testing variables and consulting otherresources, finally came to the conclusion that my IPA (91% from Wal-Mart) was causing this issue. Other users apparently had the same issue with Sam's Club IPA, so it stands to reason that Wal-Mart would probably be the same stuff.

A new bottle of isopropyl alcohol appeared to fix the problem, and I had a number of successful prints in PETG. I thought that all was well with the world!

Today however, I've run into a completely new problem. About 12% into a 4 hour print containing 6 different components in PLA, one of the parts loosened from the build plate and got pushed to the side. After a few seconds I realized the only option was to stop the print and start over.

Why would a part that already has about 2 of thickness delaminate from the build plate?

I am using Prusaslicer and trying my best to do everything "by the book" - I've not done anything weird or outside of the pre-sets and filament profiles. Also, I am using fresh filaments, which I keep in zip-lock bags with well-desiccated silca gel packets.

In general, I've run into ZERO problems printing TPU, PLA, and PETG on my smooth plate, but on the textured plate I've had issues with PLA and PETG.

I'm new to 3D printing, and these little problems always result in lots of learning and new understanding, but I gotta say already that this textured build plate is giving me headaches! It just seems plain unreliable.

Any input or ideas for what is going on would be much appreciated! In the meantime, I'll be sticking with the smooth sheet until the textured sheet apologizes...

All the best,

Chris

Posted : 23/02/2024 12:34 am
JoanTabb
(@joantabb)
Veteran Member Moderator
RE: Issues With New Textured Powder-Coated Sheet Build Plate - Delamination Mid-Print

I Wash my build plate with Hot water and dish soap, Scrub well to ensure it is very clean, Rinse well with Hot Water and dry immediately with Plain paper towels. 

and I run my heatbed at 70C for PLA

regards Joan

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK

Posted : 23/02/2024 12:53 am
Brian
(@brian-12)
Estimable Member
RE: Issues With New Textured Powder-Coated Sheet Build Plate - Delamination Mid-Print

I'm my experience PLA doesn't stick well to the textured sheet, it sticks ok to the satin.  PLA sticks really well to the PEI sheet.

I've never recalibrated anything when switching between sheets.  The problem is usually a dirty nozzle at the start of the print.  If there's plastic buildup on the tip it'll mess up your bed mesh.

Prior to every print I heat the nozzle to printing temperature and clean it with a brass brush.  Then set the printer to preheat and as the nozzle cools to the preheat temperature I make sure to brush off anything that oozes from the nozzle while it cools. 

I have perfect first layers every time when I do this.  It takes less than 5 minutes. 

Posted : 23/02/2024 1:40 am
Crab
 Crab
(@crab)
Reputable Member
RE: Issues With New Textured Powder-Coated Sheet Build Plate - Delamination Mid-Print

Textured is designed for PETG and hot bed temp filaments. I *DO* use my textured for PLA because I like the finish, but I supplement with glue-stick and use 65 as a bed temp. I don’t mind washing every 5-10 prints and re-glueing. Dish soap is better than alcohol for cleaning pla. I’ve actually stopped using alcohol altogether. From what I read, you don’t need to recalibrate the Z on the MK4 for a new sheet.. do you?  Thought that was the whole idea of the load cell in the hot end. On my MK3, it stores up to 3 sheet Z’s… but if you forget to match it to your sheet, it can dig in and leave gouges.. (or be too high and you get spaghetti). 

Posted : 23/02/2024 3:05 am
holmburgers and Brian liked
fuchsr
(@fuchsr)
Famed Member
RE:

Everything that has been said about washing the sheet with soap and hot water — yes, that's the first thing to do.

Still, on my two Mk4's and my XL, I found the "always perfect first layer" to be anything but, for PETG and the textured sheet (and at times the satin sheet). I now routinely adjust live Z manually when the print starts (long press on the display button) by -0.020 or so, to get better adhesion. I've seen plenty of similar reports, with the required live z adjustments all over the place.

This post was modified 2 months ago by fuchsr
Posted : 23/02/2024 3:41 am
Crab
 Crab
(@crab)
Reputable Member
RE:

That's a shame about the Z height not being automatic on the MK4.. From everything I read, I  prefer my Octoprint & MK3S+ as I seldom need to tweak the Z once I have it dialled in. The Octoprint works far better than the MK4/XL comm interface. The only thing I lack might be the speed, but I can routinely speed up the MK3 about 20-30%, increase the heat and PLA prints work great. I've printed for the past 2 months on both my Smooth and Rough sheet.. maybe 200 prints .. with maybe one or two Z adjustments and that is only because I use brass and it wears slowly. The one thing I've not been impressed with in Prusa is their firmware quality. I'm still running 3.11 rather than chance the "thermal anomaly" issues. 

Posted : 23/02/2024 2:03 pm
Brian
(@brian-12)
Estimable Member
RE: Issues With New Textured Powder-Coated Sheet Build Plate - Delamination Mid-Print

I'll reiterate that with a clean nozzle I've not had to adjust my Z.  I'm hundreds of prints in at this point 

I suspect most issues are a dirty nozzle and bed.  Your picking up the bed with the nozzle, so if there is any plastic on it you're z offset will be wrong.

The nozzle also picks up the bed at the same points every time, so if previous bed probing left little spots of plastic that you didn't clean or scrape off the z offset will be wrong. 

Posted : 23/02/2024 2:49 pm
holmburgers
(@holmburgers)
Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Issues With New Textured Powder-Coated Sheet Build Plate - Delamination Mid-Print

Hi Everyone,

Thanks so much for your input!

Some interesting insights indeed - so I think my "need to re-calibrate Z axis" might be an erroneous variable on my part. I will try without this and see how it goes. What is news to me is that PLA isn't intended for use on the textured bed, which is sorta born out by the '3D PRINTING HANDBOOK' that came with my machine, but not explicitly stated. Duly noted about using hotter bed temps and glue-stick if I wish to do PLA on the textured sheet. Would a generous brim perhaps also help? The part that came undone didn't have a huge amount of surface area, so perhaps this is partly to blame.

And the word about dirty nozzles... yes! In my rapid swapping of variables (bad science, boo), I neglected to mention that cleaning the nozzle was one of the important changes, and looking back at my notes, it could simply be that my first PETG woes were caused by this, possibly also with the bad IPA in tandem.

Anyways, sounds like I need to get a brass bristle brush and start paying closer attention to that! I will also try the soap cleaning of textured sheet, though this is explicitly warned against on the blog, so I didn't want to try it yet. The product page and the blog also mention Z axis compensation, which might've played into my conclusion from earlier.

As an aside, I really hate how the live Z axis control while printing doesn't become accessible until the print actually starts. During the whole warm-up and probe sequence, you can't access it! This is annoying, because when it finally comes time, it feels like defusing a bomb and only with a generous row of skirts did I feel like I had enough time to play around with this and see any change. Anyways, I digress...

Thanks again and I've learned a lot already by troubleshooting these problems - great community here!

Posted : 23/02/2024 5:33 pm
Brian liked
JoanTabb
(@joantabb)
Veteran Member Moderator
RE: Issues With New Textured Powder-Coated Sheet Build Plate - Delamination Mid-Print

be careful with Brass rushes,
if you short the heater to the thermistor circuit, you may well let the Magic smoke, out of the Einsy.

regards Joan

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK

Posted : 23/02/2024 6:36 pm
holmburgers
(@holmburgers)
Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Issues With New Textured Powder-Coated Sheet Build Plate - Delamination Mid-Print

Hi Joan,

How best to avoid this? I have a silicone sock on my tip, so does this protect it? I guess I need to look closely at the nozzle and understand how it's wired up.

Or just heat it up and turn it off before doing it...

Posted : 23/02/2024 6:41 pm
JoanTabb
(@joantabb)
Veteran Member Moderator
RE: Issues With New Textured Powder-Coated Sheet Build Plate - Delamination Mid-Print

Heat up, and turn off is safest

Joan

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK

Posted : 23/02/2024 6:48 pm
fuchsr
(@fuchsr)
Famed Member
RE: Issues With New Textured Powder-Coated Sheet Build Plate - Delamination Mid-Print

Good advice even though on the Mk4 it is a lot harder to shorten the wires compared to the Mk3 with the wires on the sides. 

Posted : 23/02/2024 7:03 pm
holmburgers and Brian liked
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