Non prusa printer profiles for PrusaSlicer  

RE: Non prusa printer profiles for PrusaSlicer

Is Prusa Slicer considered open source and shareable, or is it proprietary now that they've renamed it and pulled it from the Slic3r branches?  About shows Slic3r is using the GNU licenses, but makes no mention of Prusa Slicer licensing.

RE: Non prusa printer profiles for PrusaSlicer

Posted by: Tim

Is Prusa Slicer considered open source and shareable, or is it proprietary now that they've renamed it and pulled it from the Slic3r branches?  About shows Slic3r is using the GNU licenses, but makes no mention of Prusa Slicer licensing.

It's still open source and the code is available up on GitHub. That doesn't mean Prusa is obligated to support every printer, but only that anybody is welcome to modify it to do so. 

From the PrusaSlicer github page:

PrusaSlicer is licensed under the GNU Affero General Public License, version 3. The PrusaSlicer is originally based on Slic3r by Alessandro Ranellucci.

RE: Non prusa printer profiles for PrusaSlicer

Posted by: bobstro

Posted by: Tim

Is Prusa Slicer considered open source and shareable, or is it proprietary now that they've renamed it and pulled it from the Slic3r branches?  About shows Slic3r is using the GNU licenses, but makes no mention of Prusa Slicer licensing.

It's still open source and the code is available up on GitHub. That doesn't mean Prusa is obligated to support every printer, but only that anybody is welcome to modify it to do so. 

From the PrusaSlicer github page:

PrusaSlicer is licensed under the GNU Affero General Public License, version 3. The PrusaSlicer is originally based on Slic3r by Alessandro Ranellucci.

 

Actually, I'm not expecting Prusa to support other printers, if I was I would have emailed support instead of posting here. I'm asking the community for profile .ini files. I haven't checked Ultimaker, but Lulzbot has some Slic3r profiles for their printers. Unfortunately (for me), Lulzbot claims that the profiles are no longer updated, and I don't know how well they do (or don't) work.

I'm hoping that someone here uses any one of these printers and have a PrusaSlicer profile that they use and like that I can copy. (Or if their profile doesn't quite work can describe to me what doesn't work to give me direction.) I haven't written a profile for a printer from the ground up before, and only have weekly access to the target printers. In other words, I'm looking to learn from someone else's mistakes before I start making my own. 😉

RE: Non prusa printer profiles for PrusaSlicer

Here's the bit that would concern me if I took Prusa's work and used it for a public service to help other printer companies: and I'd probably want a note from Prusa before installing it in a public setting. This is only out of an abundance of caution, and not that I think Prusa will ever go Apple on people.  But: if Prusa ever comes along and says Prusa Slicer is part of the value package of their printer, then they can also come along and say use with other printers is allowed only with compensation.  The terms of the GNU license allows it, as follows.

https://www.gnu.org/licenses/agpl-3.0.en.html

The licenses for most software and other practical works are designed to take away your freedom to share and change the works. By contrast, our General Public Licenses are intended to guarantee your freedom to share and change all versions of a program--to make sure it remains free software for all its users.

When we speak of free software, we are referring to freedom, not price. Our General Public Licenses are designed to make sure that you have the freedom to distribute copies of free software (and charge for them if you wish), that you receive source code or can get it if you want it, that you can change the software or use pieces of it in new free programs, and that you know you can do these things.

RE: Non prusa printer profiles for PrusaSlicer

Danged edit timer didn't let me add this important tidbit:  I am all for helping the library this way.  I think it's a great idea. 

ps: the business side of my brain has experienced too many odd outcomes from seemingly harmless acts involving products and especially IP.  

RE: Non prusa printer profiles for PrusaSlicer

Posted by: Tim

Danged edit timer didn't let me add this important tidbit:  I am all for helping the library this way.  I think it's a great idea. 

ps: the business side of my brain has experienced too many odd outcomes from seemingly harmless acts involving products and especially IP.  

Well, hopefully the simple fact that one doesn't need to have purchased a Prusa printer to be able to access pre-compiled executables and source for PrusaSlicer (unlike, using a previous example, Apple's various OSes), not having a Prusa printer shouldn't preclude using the software. 😉

RE: Non prusa printer profiles for PrusaSlicer

Posted by: Sembazuru

Posted by: bobstro

Posted by: Tim

Is Prusa Slicer considered open source and shareable, or is it proprietary now that they've renamed it and pulled it from the Slic3r branches?  About shows Slic3r is using the GNU licenses, but makes no mention of Prusa Slicer licensing.

It's still open source and the code is available up on GitHub. That doesn't mean Prusa is obligated to support every printer, but only that anybody is welcome to modify it to do so. 

From the PrusaSlicer github page:

PrusaSlicer is licensed under the GNU Affero General Public License, version 3. The PrusaSlicer is originally based on Slic3r by Alessandro Ranellucci.

Actually, I'm not expecting Prusa to support other printers, if I was I would have emailed support instead of posting here.

Just to be clear: I was responding to Tim's specific concern about the licensing of PrusaSlicer. Sorry for the confusion. We do get the occasional poster demanding such things, but in this case, I simply didn't have time to reply to your question.

I'm asking the community for profile .ini files. I haven't checked Ultimaker, but Lulzbot has some Slic3r profiles for their printers. Unfortunately (for me), Lulzbot claims that the profiles are no longer updated, and I don't know how well they do (or don't) work.

I've done some tweaking of the Prusa profiles, but don't have another printer to test (yet). Developing a new profile doesn't require any magic, but to develop a good profile, you need to gather some hardware-specific information about your printers. These include:

• Firmware type (Marlin, Sailfish)
• Origin (center or corner)
• Bed dimensions
• Acceleration rates
• Jerk rates
• Feed rates
• Retraction rates
• Extruder max volumetric speed (or typical values)

With that information -- possibly extracted from another slicer's gcode results -- it's fairly straightforward to come up with working values. We have had "guests" with alien printers, and after a few pointers, they've reported success. The biggest challenge seems to be the acceleration rates. Without that, it seems the printer works, but very very slowly. Then there's the fine tuning fun.

I'm not aware of anybody maintaining a central collection, but there tend to be facebook (ech) groups for many popular types where profiles are provided. Don't forget that PrusaSlicer is a fork of Slic3r, so there may be profiles for that software that can be imported with relative ease. I know there are profiles for Creality and Monoprice printers.

Do you have existing Cura profiles for those printers? Newer versions allow direct entry of many hardware values, so that might be a good starting point.

At some point in the future, I may snag a 2nd printer (torn between a couple now) and will be merrily working on porting my Mk3 profiles for those. Unfortunately, a Taz or Ultimaker is not in the cards.

RE: Non prusa printer profiles for PrusaSlicer

Posted by: Tim

Here's the bit that would concern me if I took Prusa's work and used it for a public service to help other printer companies: and I'd probably want a note from Prusa before installing it in a public setting.

You've got it! The note that is. Their license spells out the terms under which you can modify and release software based on the PrusaSlicer code base. In addition, PrusaSlicer itself was based on Slic3r, so is required to adhere to the terms of that licensing.

This is only out of an abundance of caution, and not that I think Prusa will ever go Apple on people.  But: if Prusa ever comes along and says Prusa Slicer is part of the value package of their printer, then they can also come along and say use with other printers is allowed only with compensation.  The terms of the GNU license allows it, as follows.

Prusa could do that going forward, but not retroactively. The Free Software Foundation has a bevy of lawyers to make sure of that. Prusa could pull an Apple (or a Makerbot) and decide to go close-source for future development, but at minimum, their code is out there today and anybody is free to use it and fork it at any time. Many companies have tried doing exactly what you worry about -- close up their product and attempt to sell it (after gaining the benefit of years of open source contributions) -- only to find someone forking their last public release and producing a better product.

Then they'd have to deal with the blowback of the licensing associated with Slic3r on which they based their work which requires them to release modifications based on that work. They may not wind up losing a court case, but the FSF would make sure they lost plenty of face in the process. The community would sure make their displeasure known, and being the company that screwed their contributor base is not a good thing. (See MakerBot)

https://www.gnu.org/licenses/agpl-3.0.en.html

The licenses for most software and other practical works are designed to take away your freedom to share and change the works. By contrast, our General Public Licenses are intended to guarantee your freedom to share and change all versions of a program--to make sure it remains free software for all its users.

When we speak of free software, we are referring to freedom, not price. Our General Public Licenses are designed to make sure that you have the freedom to distribute copies of free software (and charge for them if you wish), that you receive source code or can get it if you want it, that you can change the software or use pieces of it in new free programs, and that you know you can do these things.

Oh yes, Prusa can absolutely decide to charge for their software and services. That's no different than the situation with Raise 3D's ideaMaker slicer. Also a very nice slicer by the way. Raise has chosen to release it for free, but does not release the source code. Raise is already incorporating their cloud features and could start charging for that service and disable local slicing at any time. Unlike Raise, however, Prusa's existing software source code it already out there and can be legally modified and released under the same terms you cite above. Hell, Prusa could be run out of business and the software might live on indefinitely if enough developers decide to make a go of it.

As far as the viability of the open source model under which a company depends on the benefits of a large base of supporting and contributing users versus a smaller pool of paying customers, one only need look at Simplify 3D's closed source proprietary and for-sale software. 18 months ago, they had "the" slicer. If you were serious, you paid the $150 for their software. I sure did. In the intervening 18 months, Cura, Slic3r/PrusaSlicer and others have stepped up their games and are now arguably producing the better product. S3D still has strengths in their wide support of different printers and a very fast slicing engine, but the gap has closed. Fast. S3D is going to make v5 a paid upgrade, and their user base is pretty pissed off about it. (See their forums for info.)

It's also worth noting that one product mentioned in this thread is reportedly developed and maintained by a single individual who handles all of the core software. Should that individual die or simply lose interest, there is no guarantee the product development could continue. Nothing in their licensing guarantees release of the code. Also worth citing the race-to-the-bottom printer manufacturers who release printers using Marlin-based firmware but with rudimentary safety checks disabled, while simultaneously substituting parts which contribute to fire hazards. Which model are you more comfortable with?

RE: Non prusa printer profiles for PrusaSlicer

Posted by: Sembazuru

[...] Before I start creating profiles for those three types of printers from scratch I thought I would ask if anyone has profiles already made that I can use (or at the very least use as a starting point).

I fired up Simplify 3D, added a Lulzbot Mini and sliced a part. Inspecting the gcode didn't yield too much useful information, other than a M204 S2000 command specifying default acceleration. That might give you some starting information, but with irregular access, testing may be painful.

RE: Non prusa printer profiles for PrusaSlicer

Posted by: bobstro

Posted by: Sembazuru

[...] Before I start creating profiles for those three types of printers from scratch I thought I would ask if anyone has profiles already made that I can use (or at the very least use as a starting point).

I fired up Simplify 3D, added a Lulzbot Mini and sliced a part. Inspecting the gcode didn't yield too much useful information, other than a M204 S2000 command specifying default acceleration. That might give you some starting information, but with irregular access, testing may be painful.

I agree about the testing being painful. Well, slow is more like it. 😉

Next time I'm at the library I'll get screenshots of the settings that currently work with the printers from Cura and use that as a starting point for building my master plan my square one tests. My instinct is that translating the Cura settings to PrusaSlicer settings should be a good first step.

RE: Non prusa printer profiles for PrusaSlicer

Posted by: Sembazuru

[...] Next time I'm at the library I'll get screenshots of the settings that currently work with the printers from Cura and use that as a starting point for building my master plan my square one tests. My instinct is that translating the Cura settings to PrusaSlicer settings should be a good first step.

Oooh, do you have a gcode file generated for one of the machines available? Or can someone email you one? I just fired up Cura and checked the gcode it does insert the magical stanza into the gcode:

M201 X1000 Y1000 Z200 E5000 ; sets maximum accelerations, mm/sec^2
M203 X200 Y200 Z12 E120 ; sets maximum feedrates, mm/sec
M204 S1250 T1250 ; sets acceleration (S) and retract acceleration (T)
M205 X8 Y8 Z0.4 E1.5 ; sets the jerk limits, mm/sec
M205 S0 T0 ; sets the minimum extruding and travel feed rate, mm/sec

Unfortunately, Cura doesn't include Lulzbot profiles, but with any luck, you'll be able to find them in the gcode. From what people using other printers have posted, getting those values right is most of the battle. You can at least generate a test print and hopefully save a trip before you get a stab at it.

RE: Non prusa printer profiles for PrusaSlicer

Posted by: bobstro

Posted by: Sembazuru

[...] Next time I'm at the library I'll get screenshots of the settings that currently work with the printers from Cura and use that as a starting point for building my master plan my square one tests. My instinct is that translating the Cura settings to PrusaSlicer settings should be a good first step.

Oooh, do you have a gcode file generated for one of the machines available? Or can someone email you one? I just fired up Cura and checked the gcode it does insert the magical stanza into the gcode:

M201 X1000 Y1000 Z200 E5000 ; sets maximum accelerations, mm/sec^2
M203 X200 Y200 Z12 E120 ; sets maximum feedrates, mm/sec
M204 S1250 T1250 ; sets acceleration (S) and retract acceleration (T)
M205 X8 Y8 Z0.4 E1.5 ; sets the jerk limits, mm/sec
M205 S0 T0 ; sets the minimum extruding and travel feed rate, mm/sec

Unfortunately, Cura doesn't include Lulzbot profiles, but with any luck, you'll be able to find them in the gcode. From what people using other printers have posted, getting those values right is most of the battle. You can at least generate a test print and hopefully save a trip before you get a stab at it.

I'll ask my friend who runs the lab for a simple gcode sample for each of the printers. I'm not sure which version of Cura they use on the Ultimakers, but the Lulzbot machines use Lulzbot's version/release of Cura (which is still only at 3.6).

RE: Non prusa printer profiles for PrusaSlicer

I took a look at the "unsupported" Lulzbot Slic3r profile. If nothing else, the startup gcode should work:

;Basic settings: Layer height: {layer_height} Walls: {wall_thickness} Fill: {fill_density}
;Print time: {print_time}
;Filament used: {filament_amount}m {filament_weight}g
;Filament cost: {filament_cost}
G21 ; metric values
G90 ; absolute positioning
M82 ; set extruder to absolute mode
M107 ; start with the fan off
G92 E0 ; set extruder position to 0
M140 S60 ; get bed heating up
G28 ; home all
M109 S140 ; set to cleaning temp and wait
G1 Z150 E-30 F75 ; suck up XXmm of filament
M109 S140 ; heat up rest of way
G1 X45 Y174 F11520 ; move behind scraper
G1 Z0 F1200 ; CRITICAL: set Z to height of top of scraper
G1 X45 Y174 Z-.5 F4000 ; wiping ; plunge into wipe pad
G1 X55 Y172 Z-.5 F4000 ; wiping
G1 X45 Y174 Z0 F4000 ; wiping
G1 X55 Y172 F4000 ; wiping
G1 X45 Y174 F4000 ; wiping
G1 X55 Y172 F4000 ; wiping
G1 X45 Y174 F4000 ; wiping
G1 X55 Y172 F4000 ; wiping
G1 X60 Y174 F4000 ; wiping
G1 X80 Y172 F4000 ; wiping
G1 X60 Y174 F4000 ; wiping
G1 X80 Y172 F4000 ; wiping
G1 X60 Y174 F4000 ; wiping
G1 X90 Y172 F4000 ; wiping
G1 X80 Y174 F4000 ; wiping
G1 X100 Y172 F4000 ; wiping
G1 X80 Y174 F4000 ; wiping
G1 X100 Y172 F4000 ; wiping
G1 X80 Y174 F4000 ; wiping
G1 X100 Y172 F4000 ; wiping
G1 X110 Y174 F4000 ; wiping
G1 X100 Y172 F4000 ; wiping
G1 X110 Y174 F4000 ; wiping
G1 X100 Y172 F4000 ; wiping
G1 X110 Y174 F4000 ; wiping
G1 X115 Y172 Z-0.5 F1000 ; wipe slower and bury noz in cleanish area
G1 Z10 ; raise z
G28 X0 Y0 ; home x and y
M109 S140 ; set to probing temp
M204 S300 ; set accel for probing
G29 ; Probe
M204 S2000 ; set accel back to normal
G1 X5 Y15 Z10 F5000 ; get out the way
M400 ; clear buffer
G4 S1 ; pause
M109 S205 ; set extruder temp and wait
G4 S25 ; wait for bed to temp up
G1 Z2 E0 F60 ; extrude filament back into nozzle
M140 S65; get bed temping up during first layer

Looks like it does a little cleaning wiggle at the start along with some big retractions for the Bowden setup. Getting the startup right is probably the 2nd big battle, so this is good stuff. I'll look through the rest. If that profile mostly worked, it should be fairly easy to get you going.

Edit: Looking through it, that profile should work fine. Just save it out as an .ini file. You might have to paste the PrusaSlicer header line in to replace the Slic3r line if the PS update isn't out when you try it. Other than that, it looks like a mostly-sane config.

RE: Non prusa printer profiles for PrusaSlicer

@sembazuru

I'm starting to think the PrusaSlicer profile for a Taz4/5/6 could be a really helpful thing.

I have been comparing some of the prints a coworker makes next to my 3DS prints and they are much crisper.

Have you posted your latest TAZ printer profile?

RE: Non prusa printer profiles for PrusaSlicer

Posted by: @scott-rockwell

@sembazuru

I'm starting to think the PrusaSlicer profile for a Taz4/5/6 could be a really helpful thing.

I have been comparing some of the prints a coworker makes next to my 3DS prints and they are much crisper.

Have you posted your latest TAZ printer profile?

I did on a different post. I'll try to find it (either here or just grab the config bundle from the library's computer next time I'm over there) and post to this thread.

After showing some modifier tricks in PrusaSlicer I'm slowly converting them from the frozen-in-time Cura-v3-LulzBot edition to PrusaSlicer. 😎 

RE: Non prusa printer profiles for PrusaSlicer

Posted by: @sembazuru

Posted by: @scott-rockwell

@sembazuru

I'm starting to think the PrusaSlicer profile for a Taz4/5/6 could be a really helpful thing.

I have been comparing some of the prints a coworker makes next to my 3DS prints and they are much crisper.

Have you posted your latest TAZ printer profile?

I did on a different post. I'll try to find it (either here or just grab the config bundle from the library's computer next time I'm over there) and post to this thread.

After showing some modifier tricks in PrusaSlicer I'm slowly converting them from the frozen-in-time Cura-v3-LulzBot edition to PrusaSlicer. 😎 

Just to close the loop:

The other post that I've put what I came up with for the Taz6 and Mini is here:

https://forum.prusa3d.com/forum/prusaslicer/trying-to-get-my-taz-6-working-with-slicer-help-please/

See the other thread for discussion, but here is the file again if the other thread is tl;dr:

PrusaSlicer_config_LulBot_Mini&Taz6