RE: Update...(Kind of)
On the other hand, announcing early immediately draws sales away from their competitors and builds an eager customer base from day one. If they had waited until they were ready to ship, I can guarantee there'd be people complaining that they wouldn't have bought that U1 if they'd had some advance warning.
Yes, they are between a rock and a hard place: Announce too early and it will cost a lot of goodwill among potential customers -- or don't announce early and lose those customers to the competition right away.
I am sure Prusa would love to simply "ship early" instead. But it seems they are consistently lagging behind the competition now, by somewhere between 6 and 12 months. (Or significantly more for some functionality, like RFID.)
RE: Update...(Kind of)
If it helps, I'm starting to get the impression that multi-nozzle-size slicer support isn't there yet, at least in the way people might intuitively expect (with a common layer height yes - but that's a serious compromise in both speed and strength if the 0.6mm nozzle needs to print with a 0.2mm-compatible layer height, and vice versa in precision). So getting the hardware might be only the first step on the journey.
I suspect that people will have hacked up their own custom workflow with existing toolchangers when high-value prints require it, e.g. slice multiple times for each layer height / nozzle and reassemble with a Python script along "TYPE" annotations in the g-code. Superficially, this seems relatively straightforward for individual prints, as proof-of-concept. Turning it into a shrink-wrapped mainstream push-button feature would be a different challenge... if anybody knows something, please share.
RE: Update...(Kind of)
If it helps, I'm starting to get the impression that multi-nozzle-size slicer support isn't there yet, at least in the way people might intuitively expect (with a common layer height yes - but that's a serious compromise in both speed and strength if the 0.6mm nozzle needs to print with a 0.2mm-compatible layer height, and vice versa in precision). So getting the hardware might be only the first step on the journey.
Good point. I had always assumed that it would not (necessarily) be supported to use two different nozzle sizes in the same layer. In many use cases one could orient a model such that e.g. a few layers of the front face of an enclosure are printed with a 0.2 mm nozzle for detailed lettering, followed by the bulk of the box printed faster with a 0.4 mm nozzle.
But for now it seems to be "same diameter for all nozzles please" across the board. Bambu Labs' multi-nozzle printers have that restriction as well.
RE:
I don't think there is a good reason for needing the same layer height for different nozzle sizes - the printer will just have to move to whatever Z height it needs next and print whatever is needed, then move up for the next layers.
So for example if you were printing 0.4mm at 0.2 and 0.25 at 0.125 layer height - You could do Z 0.125 - print the 0.25/0.125 nozzle layer, then move up to 0.2 to do the 0.4/0.2 mm layer, then 0.25 for the next layer of the 0.25, 0.375 for the 3rd 0.25 layer, then 0.4 for the 2nd 0.4/0.2 layer etc.
On most prints I would imagine the 0.25mm nozzle would only be used in a small part of the print.
Also variable layer height and priming with mixed nozzles would be essential features needing to be supported - maybe the priming would be solved by the off bed priming shown at recent shows.
Probably the first Z height where both nozzle sizes would print is 1.0mm
Until slicers start supporting this feature properly I think I will probably just slice the same model twice at the two layer heights / nozzle sizes - then post process the two gcode streams back into one stream with the layers and nozzles sizes mixed back together in the correct order.
RE: Update...(Kind of)
I don't think there is a good reason for needing the same layer height for different nozzle sizes - the printer will just have to move to whatever Z height it needs next and print whatever is needed, then move up for the next layers.
Sure, it's all possible, and to some extent is already done for support layers. But it adds complexity to the slicer. When the layer heights are incommensurate, there will be additional collision avoidance issues when you print at a height where the previously printed layer from the "other" nozzle is partially in the way.
RE: Update...(Kind of)
Collision avoidance is already handled when printing in more than one colour. In a two-colour print, one colour will go a layer ahead, then the other colour catches up and then goes ahead. So the logic for avoiding the existing 'leading' layer is in there already.
RE: Update...(Kind of)
I'm sure it does but that is premised on actually delivering something to satisfy that pent up demand which seems to be Prusa's achilles heel.
Would be interesting to know how many people who signed up for the founders edition have walked away?
On the other hand, announcing early immediately draws sales away from their competitors and builds an eager customer base from day one. If they had waited until they were ready to ship, I can guarantee there'd be people complaining that they wouldn't have bought that U1 if they'd had some advance warning.
RE: Update...(Kind of)
well, we're at the end of April and still no magic… I suspect people will eventually start walking away. They haven't already.
Bambu is laying the products out like they're going out of style… In other manufacturers are coming out with changers that will at least be beyond par with any four nozzle tool changer that Prusa does
RE: Update...(Kind of)
They’d have been doing that anyway. This way Prusa and Bondtech have tied up a small proportion of the audience for those machines.
I’m hopeful that INDX will be judged one of the best ways to do multi-tools, so a few weeks’ delay isn’t important to me.
Bambu is laying the products out like they're going out of style… In other manufacturers are coming out with changers that will at least be beyond par with any four nozzle tool changer that Prusa does
RE: Update...(Kind of)
Personally I am not in a tearing hurry for Prusa INdX - I would rather Prusa implemented if properly from day1 - as I would not like to have sort of issues there were with the mmu2 or XL.
i hope though that they are not holding up the release of the voron founders release in order to fully complete the prusa implementation.
RE: Update...(Kind of)
Begs the question of how long will you wait?
They’d have been doing that anyway. This way Prusa and Bondtech have tied up a small proportion of the audience for those machines.
I’m hopeful that INDX will be judged one of the best ways to do multi-tools, so a few weeks’ delay isn’t important to me.
Bambu is laying the products out like they're going out of style… In other manufacturers are coming out with changers that will at least be beyond par with any four nozzle tool changer that Prusa does
RE: Update...(Kind of)
typo, should have been "on-par" mit...
RE: Update...(Kind of)
Well it took me 9 months to cancel my order for a Ston-Wolf! I won't go into details, but he is a one-man band making what looks, to the outsider, like mistakes with his new business.
With Prusa and Bondtech, established trustworthy players in this industry, with numerous product launches under their belts, I don't expect them to let this string out. Just don't mention the XL pre-order timescales!
Begs the question of how long will you wait?
RE: Update...(Kind of)
I didn't want a second printer but it was the ever shifting release date/period and lack of communication that caused me to pick up another printer. I'm more interesting in multi-material than multi-color. So my new printer does what I need to support my other hobbies.
I'm sticking it out now with the INDX because I'm curious about the system, I want to learn and tinker. Experiment with multi-color but not have all of this FUD holding up my other projects. I can have the printer (the Core One) out of commission for awhile if it comes to that. As for waiting, I can wait a while longer now.
RE: Update...(Kind of)
In the PrusaSlicer 2.9.5-beta2 github release they provided an update on the status of PrusaSlicer 3.x.x. Read the full text for all info, but perhaps relevant for the INDX is that they current estimate for some kind of release is counted in weeks, possibly more than 4 weeks. This seems to somewhat line up with the prognosis for the INDX founder's edition release, so maybe even more to look forward to?
RE: Update...(Kind of)
In the PrusaSlicer 2.9.5-beta2 github release they provided an update on the status of PrusaSlicer 3.x.x. Read the full text for all info, but perhaps relevant for the INDX is that they current estimate for some kind of release is counted in weeks, possibly more than 4 weeks. This seems to somewhat line up with the prognosis for the INDX founder's edition release, so maybe even more to look forward to?
PS3 is bound to be a bugfest when first released to the public, I think rolling that alongside INDX (which will inevitably have it's own 'issues' when founders ship) is a recipe for disaster.
I'll be happy to use PS2 while the INDX bugs are ironed out, then when the waters are calmer move to PS3.
RE: Update...(Kind of)
Sounds like PS3 with Indx is the invite for volunteers to join the Prusa R&D Test Team, nothing stings quite like paying 700 euros, dollars, etc and then spending the next 6 months debugging it for them free of charge.
In the PrusaSlicer 2.9.5-beta2 github release they provided an update on the status of PrusaSlicer 3.x.x. Read the full text for all info, but perhaps relevant for the INDX is that they current estimate for some kind of release is counted in weeks, possibly more than 4 weeks. This seems to somewhat line up with the prognosis for the INDX founder's edition release, so maybe even more to look forward to?
PS3 is bound to be a bugfest when first released to the public, I think rolling that alongside INDX (which will inevitably have it's own 'issues' when founders ship) is a recipe for disaster.
I'll be happy to use PS2 while the INDX bugs are ironed out, then when the waters are calmer move to PS3.
RE: Update...(Kind of)
I mean, I dont know that will happen for sure, but if I were a betting man...
Thats just how things work with Prusa, as the BBC likes to say: 'other brands are availabale'.
RE: Update...(Kind of)
Might be a silly question but why is there a purge bucket?
I thought the whole idea of indx beyond multi-colour/material printing was to reduce waste, if you are not changing the filament in the nozzle why do you need to purge material?
https://www.reddit.com/r/prusa3d/comments/1suc7l2/what_is_this/
- 13mg, it's not a lot of waste at each change. Whilst 0 would be optimal it seems to me like a fair compromise to not have blobs in the print itself.
RE: Update...(Kind of)
Agreed - but it does seem rather messy - I would much rather have a tiny prime tower or two - which could potentially be used for something if it printed in a shape that could be used for something - rather than a blob that is definitely waste.
Although you can of course melt them down into flat sheets like Teaching Tech demonstrated a couple of years ago.
The most interesting thing to me is the tiny amount of prime they seem to be able to get away with - plus also if this video is correct Prusa are saying 7 second tool change times.