RE: Update...(Kind of)
the L has a line voltage heated priting table where people could zap them pretty badly. I thought that this issue was the (main) reason for not offering a kit. If the INDX update requires touching the plate, I could see it not happening...
I believe the official line is that they can't safety certify it as AC needs them or an electrician to certify. However, nothing is stopping someone from giving it a go, at their own risk. It's probable they could offer an upgrade package that avoids directly interacting with the AC supply to the bed
I do not believe there is anything stopping a company CE marking or safety certifying a self build kit that uses AC mains voltages.
There is plenty of risk associated with letting people who maybe unskilled and wouldn't know the 'hot' wire from the neutral until they get a belt from it loose on such a kit, be that to the person themselves, their property and ultimately the companies reputation. Building it in a factory lets them complete the basic safety checks in a controlled environment e.g. is the earth connected, terminals tight, etc. Electricity doesn't respect anyone or anything.
I guess Prusa baulked at the risk involved rather than any regulatory hurdles such a product presented. I would be quite happy building a Core One L and was disappointed there wasn't a kit available.
RE: Update...(Kind of)
the L has a line voltage heated priting table where people could zap them pretty badly. I thought that this issue was the (main) reason for not offering a kit. If the INDX update requires touching the plate, I could see it not happening...
I believe the official line is that they can't safety certify it as AC needs them or an electrician to certify. However, nothing is stopping someone from giving it a go, at their own risk. It's probable they could offer an upgrade package that avoids directly interacting with the AC supply to the bed
I do not believe there is anything stopping a company CE marking or safety certifying a self build kit that uses AC mains voltages.
There is plenty of risk associated with letting people who maybe unskilled and wouldn't know the 'hot' wire from the neutral until they get a belt from it loose on such a kit, be that to the person themselves, their property and ultimately the companies reputation. Building it in a factory lets them complete the basic safety checks in a controlled environment e.g. is the earth connected, terminals tight, etc. Electricity doesn't respect anyone or anything.
I guess Prusa baulked at the risk involved rather than any regulatory hurdles such a product presented. I would be quite happy building a Core One L and was disappointed there wasn't a kit available.
I honestly think the level of issues they had with the Core one kit builds was likely staggering based purely on forum posts. Many were very simple errors that still likely resulted in a lot of time from their support teams trouble shooting. AC is one thing but potentially this aspect was also a consideration. Ultimately they could sell the bed as a completed unit that just plugs in to avoid the safety issue.
RE: Update...(Kind of)
I do not believe there is anything stopping a company CE marking or safety certifying a self build kit that uses AC mains voltages.
Is that belief based on any specific knowledge in the domain of electrical safety and CE regulatory requirements? 🙄
Assuming the Core One L is a Class 1 device (i.e. electrical safety is based on all exposed metal parts being grounded), how do you ensure that a kit builder makes the proper low-impedance protective earth connections?
RE: Update...(Kind of)
Well they could make it a class 2 product with no need for a safety earth and use a polarised connector to plug in the ac heated build plate and insulate any accessible hazardous voltages, not as if the build plate itself will be sitting at mains voltage when the printer is powered on.
Lots of design choices they could make.
I know a bit, Prusa CE marked the Core One kit, not sure how using mains voltage instead of 24VDC to heat the bed changes the regulatory landscape.
I do not believe there is anything stopping a company CE marking or safety certifying a self build kit that uses AC mains voltages.
Is that belief based on any specific knowledge in the domain of electrical safety and CE regulatory requirements? 🙄
Assuming the Core One L is a Class 1 device (i.e. electrical safety is based on all exposed metal parts being grounded), how do you ensure that a kit builder makes the proper low-impedance protective earth connections?
RE: Update...(Kind of)
24V is SELV (safe extra-low voltage, free for everyone to touch). 230V is obviously not. World of a difference.
RE:
24V is SELV (safe extra-low voltage, free for everyone to touch). 230V is obviously not. World of a difference.
Agree, the issue becomes one of making those hazardous voltages inaccessible to a user during normal/abnormal use and maintenance through the use of adequate insulation or other means.
It is not a case that you can't CE mark it, so long as it is a complete machine whether fully built or a complete kit the manufacturer can CE Mark it without placing any responsibility on the assembler or end user beyond using it as intended.
RE: Update...(Kind of)
24V is SELV (safe extra-low voltage, free for everyone to touch). 230V is obviously not. World of a difference.
This is not exactly true, 24V only means that it is ELV, which can still be dangerous. A defective transformer can leak the Live potential to the output. This is why accidents sometimes happen with cheap Chinese phone chargers, even though they only deliver 5V. To be SELV, the power supply must be based on a safety isolating transformer, designed so that a single fault cannot expose the Live conductor to the user. The corresponding symbol in Europe (at least in France) is the safety transformer (SELV) pictogram (looks like a shield).
RE: Update...(Kind of)
I honestly think the level of issues they had with the Core one kit builds was likely staggering based purely on forum posts. Many were very simple errors that still likely resulted in a lot of time from their support teams trouble shooting. AC is one thing but potentially this aspect was also a consideration. Ultimately they could sell the bed as a completed unit that just plugs in to avoid the safety issue.
Having just helped a friend build a Mk4S kit, and with previous experience building a Core One last year and a Mk3 years ago, I'm definitely inclined to think that the additional complexity of the kit is a significant factor in that decision. The Mk4S kit was very smooth, and far simpler than the Core One kit. It's really impressive how far Prusa has come with refining the same general bed slinger design to be so much simpler to build than the old Mk3 was. I do hope that Prusa continues to offer kits for future iterations of the Core One family though, maybe they'll eventually manage to get it comparably simple to the process they've optimized for the Mk4S.
RE:
I'm not sure mate, when you look at the amount of basic mistakes on here, reddit etc the support burden must be absolutely huge. And support in Europe (when it's 100% human) is very expensive.
And if you look a lot of these people making basic mistakes don't even consider they've done something wrong, they just scream 'this printers trash grrrr'.
If they stop doing kits theres no reason why every future printer wont have the AC bed (which is objectively better), so it's a double win for Prusa.
I really enjoyed building my C1 so it's a sad step (if taken), but an understandable one.
RE: Update...(Kind of)
I am on the "I love my kits" faction and, I've mentioned it a number of times, I am forever grateful to the people that left comments on the assembly instructions, they were a lifesaver and made my C1 experience really really nice. That said, I believe the potential for little mistake with huge nasty effects seem to be much larger on the C1 than on the mk3 and mk4 (that is as far back as my experience goes). Couple this with an apparent growing lack of patience and disappearing "read the forum, this has been solved before and discussed 3 million times already" capability and I can see why Prusa may opt for delivering assembled printers.
RE:
This seems to be largely a generational thing. And very recent studies are linking this need for instant information/gratification, lack of critical thinking, back to “screen time” and ready internet access during formative years. I diligently put my core one together over a couple weeks (have other commitments), and was meticulously going through the comments but I look at my kids now and wonder would they have that level of patience. I can see a lot of people would see a “speed build” as a badge of honor… even if it’s the first time they built the printer! Obviously a lot of assumptions and conjecture in my post but the times are a changing and 3d printing is quickly moving away from niche, engineering types, I wonder if Prusa is starting to reflect on that.
The core one wasn’t my first printer but was the first one I built. I wanted to build it as I spent half the time dismantling my other one to repair things. I loved the experience and would be sad if that option wasn’t there in the future outside more complex reprap printer builds. The indx will fix the itch for this year at least
RE: Update...(Kind of)
LOL not so sure it applies only to the younger ones... I've seen threads in the forum very much disproving that theory. My very much empirical observation let me believe that, after the Covid phase, a lot of persons came back to social interaction with much shorter fuses than before, driving a car, in a line, or in a forum, whatever th reason.
This said, to bring back the thread in the right direction, has anyone got any update on the shipping dates for the Founder Edition?
Posted by: @chmax
Couple this with an apparent growing lack of patience and disappearing "read the forum, this has been solved before and discussed 3 million times already" capability and I can see why Prusa may opt for delivering assembled printers.
This seems to be largely a generational thing. And very recent studies are linking this need for instant information/gratification, lack of critical thinking, back to “screen time” and ready internet access during formative years. I diligently put my core one together over a couple weeks (have other commitments), and was meticulously going through the comments but I look at my kids now and wonder would they have that level of patience. I can see a lot of people would see a “speed build” as a badge of honor… even if it’s the first time they built the printer! Obviously a lot of assumptions and conjecture in my post but the times are a changing and 3d printing is quickly moving away from niche, engineering types, I wonder if Prusa is starting to reflect on that.
The core one wasn’t my first printer but was the first one I built. I wanted to build it as I spent half the time dismantling my other one to repair things. I loved the experience and would be sad if that option wasn’t there in the future outside more complex reprap printer builds. The indx will fix the itch for this year at least
RE: Update...(Kind of)
LOL not so sure it applies only to the younger ones... I've seen threads in the forum very much disproving that theory. My very much empirical observation let me believe that, after the Covid phase, a lot of persons came back to social interaction with much shorter fuses than before, driving a car, in a line, or in a forum, whatever th reason.
This said, to bring back the thread in the right direction, has anyone got any update on the shipping dates for the Founder Edition?
Like everything it's more nuanced than it "just being because of the young ones", it's multifactorial, but it is being strongly demonstrated from studies that the younger generations have been impacted as result of growing up in front of screens and on demand internet access for information. But I must caveat it doesnt mean every young person 🤣. Just that from a probability perspective the odds are a little higher. I agree around Covid, I've made the same observations. Also you have the expansion of 3d printing more into the general public with a boom in numbers. All 3 factors will contribute.
But yes, lets get back on topic before I get called a boomer at the age of 39 by a "young one"... not for the first time 🤣.
RE: Update...(Kind of)
As there are no shipping updates....
LOL not so sure it applies only to the younger ones... I've seen threads in the forum very much disproving that theory. My very much empirical observation let me believe that, after the Covid phase, a lot of persons came back to social interaction with much shorter fuses than before, driving a car, in a line, or in a forum, whatever th reason.
This said, to bring back the thread in the right direction, has anyone got any update on the shipping dates for the Founder Edition?
Posted by: @chmax
Couple this with an apparent growing lack of patience and disappearing "read the forum, this has been solved before and discussed 3 million times already" capability and I can see why Prusa may opt for delivering assembled printers.
This seems to be largely a generational thing. And very recent studies are linking this need for instant information/gratification, lack of critical thinking, back to “screen time” and ready internet access during formative years. I diligently put my core one together over a couple weeks (have other commitments), and was meticulously going through the comments but I look at my kids now and wonder would they have that level of patience. I can see a lot of people would see a “speed build” as a badge of honor… even if it’s the first time they built the printer! Obviously a lot of assumptions and conjecture in my post but the times are a changing and 3d printing is quickly moving away from niche, engineering types, I wonder if Prusa is starting to reflect on that.
The core one wasn’t my first printer but was the first one I built. I wanted to build it as I spent half the time dismantling my other one to repair things. I loved the experience and would be sad if that option wasn’t there in the future outside more complex reprap printer builds. The indx will fix the itch for this year at least
RE: Update...(Kind of)
On Discord Olof from Bondtech just responded to someone who said they were expecting to receive their founders kit late May / early June with "probably earlier". Appreciate 'probably' is doing a lot of work in that comment, but it appears they are getting close to shipping the first kits.
RE: Update...(Kind of)
I think when I finalised my order, the shipping date was May 21st, but I may of dreamt that, as I can't find that info anywhere on my order page 😐
RE:
I think when I finalised my order, the shipping date was May 21st, but I may of dreamt that, as I can't find that info anywhere on my order page 😐
Short answer is there have been no concrete dates provided beyond "Q2" or "end of Q2" etc. The only thing certain at this point is the year.
If I remember correctly, there was announcement on March 20th that the kit's would be delayed by around 4 weeks which implied to some people that they would ship in late April. I'm assuming (guessing really) they are being naturally reluctant to ship out a product that isn't ready because obviously it would look bad on them.
RE: Update...(Kind of)
it looks like they are still adding pieces to the BOM every day. Someone mentioned earlier in the forum that auto open and close is confirmed, adding to the parts list like the purge bin, the positioning board, a new solution instead of the PTFE tube to keep the cable from sagging etc etc
A lot of good but very much still moving pieces...
RE: Update...(Kind of)
I do wonder if the dev kit version is ready to go but Prusa are still scrambling and holding up the show. Is that contract a shared launched? Honestly by the sounds of things on the reprap side it’s working away awhile now.
Also not sure if anyone else looked at the Canuk Creator stream? 12mins he’s at the Prusa desk, there’s one of the reps working on the 8 tool printer, mentioning it was having under extrusion issues and he’s changing filament. He’s asked about the calibration pcb. Calls it the tool offset calibration. It’s hard to hear but it sounds like he says something about firmware and that it would be in the coming weeks or months… 🤣 I’m not holding my breath
RE: Update...(Kind of)
yup... I also remember it was said the printer was well-traveled, they had packed it up on one trade fair and airlifted straight to the next. Wouldn't read too much into issues at the time of the video.