RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
That blue shelf part printed in PETG at 19:55 looks pretty perfect to me from what I can see in the video.
He says it's from PETG HF. I assume that it means Bambu PETG HF, which has matte surface finish. Matte filament effectively hides VFAs and other surface imperfections.
I ordered a roll of PETG HF from Bambu to print on my Core One and see if it shows the same VFAs as PLA, PETG, and ASA. I'll let you know how it turns out in a week or two. 😀
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
Interesting video comparing VFAs from various core xy printers…Core One is coming in last compared to some much cheaper printers.
There’s an interesting part at the end with some comments from an ex Prusa engineer, Nathan, the guy who designed the Nextruder. He’s just released his own printer I think…anyway, his comments regarding the VFAs hint that the problems are very likely to be belt related.
RE:
That's not the Nextruder guy. This is.
I'm looking into getting this printer.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
It’s really interesting but also really annoying/disappointing/worrying regarding the futur of the brand.
The more time passes the more it seems that Prusa is loosing his reputation of making great printers that deliver best quality prints.
Honestly it doesn’t make me confident for the futur of the printer and just makes me want to cancel my order of CORE One kit…
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
That's not the Nextruder guy. This is.
I'm looking into getting this printer.
Yes I know…he is quoting from a conversation he had with Nathan, the guy from Joel’s video.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
Can confirm the phase stepping calibration wizard works on the v6.3.3 firmware. I'll put on a print and compare tomorrow.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
It’s really interesting but also really annoying/disappointing/worrying regarding the futur of the brand.
The more time passes the more it seems that Prusa is loosing his reputation of making great printers that deliver best quality prints.
Honestly it doesn’t make me confident for the futur of the printer and just makes me want to cancel my order of CORE One kit…
Yeah if what he’s saying is accurate it’s worrying that problems like the VFA issue aren’t being addressed for primarily financial reasons.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
And that their decision to make an upgrade path from MK4S really involve hardware limitations.
As Corexy printers don’t have the same specifications and need as bed slingers, that should have started from scratch and made a completely different type of printers.
I still don’t know what motivated them to make an upgrade path beside the fact that they could claim « look, we are the only brand that allows you to upgrade your old machine to the new one ».
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
I'm very very very disappointed by Prusa. Over a week has passed since my printer arrived for repair. They said it's in a repair queue and shouldn't take much time to get repaired. Today I asked them about the status and guess what: They haven't even started to repair it... That was definitely my last Prusa printer. The Core One was planned to print a big print job but broke down after not even one month of usage, then they kinda played with me by letting me performed the same steps for repeatedly over a time span of one week and then it takes too long to get it repaired.
I hope they can't fix it and they need to take it back... It's by far the worst experience and print quality I ever had (despite the old Anet a8, but that's not counted in...)
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
Compatibility and cost. No commentary on the prices Prusa charges, but using proven, already manufactured, already available parts from an existing model probably costs less than sourcing/manufacturing entirely new ones.
And that their decision to make an upgrade path from MK4S really involve hardware limitations.
As Corexy printers don’t have the same specifications and need as bed slingers, that should have started from scratch and made a completely different type of printers.
I still don’t know what motivated them to make an upgrade path beside the fact that they could claim « look, we are the only brand that allows you to upgrade your old machine to the new one ».
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
Compatibility and cost. No commentary on the prices Prusa charges, but using proven, already manufactured, already available parts from an existing model probably costs less than sourcing/manufacturing entirely new ones.
And that their decision to make an upgrade path from MK4S really involve hardware limitations.
As Corexy printers don’t have the same specifications and need as bed slingers, that should have started from scratch and made a completely different type of printers.
I still don’t know what motivated them to make an upgrade path beside the fact that they could claim « look, we are the only brand that allows you to upgrade your old machine to the new one ».
Of course, but when did Prusa went from top notch quality printers to « high cost entry level quality printers »? I mean, did they really test their printers and were satisfied from it like « yeah, it will do the trick, it’s enough… I guess? »?
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
Compatibility and cost. No commentary on the prices Prusa charges, but using proven, already manufactured, already available parts from an existing model probably costs less than sourcing/manufacturing entirely new ones.
And when Core One owners increasingly realize that Prusa just can't get the print quality improved to what their old bedslingers provided, Prusa can market a Core One to Mk4s conversion kit! 👍
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
Josef Prusa responded on the Reddit about the VFA issue, as far as I know this actually the first "offical" response from Prusa about the VFA's.
Anyhow we do not see the same level of VFA internally. We are fetching some machines back to investigate. My guess is that it can be worsened by multiple little things during transport, kit assembly etc, so the outcome will be a mix of a checklist, improved build instructions for kit builders and FW optimization.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
You may posted his full answer as he's talking about print quality in general:
We are doing a lot of blind print tests internally comparing to other machines on the market, so I am very confident in the print quality. Primarily the models which we se people print a lot on Printables, not synthetic models. Then we use CT scanning for evaluation of dimensional accuracy (still haven’t been matched by any desktop machine) and now implementing Gelsight for repeatable measurements of the surface quality … Anyhow we do not see the same level of VFA internally. We are fetching some machines back to investigate. My guess is that it can be worsened by multiple little things during transport, kit assembly etc, so the outcome will be a mix of a checklist, improved build instructions for kit builders and FW optimization.
He answered to my message as I said it was annoying/worrying to see that Prusa printer doesn't deliver as high quality print as usual.
What is upsetting me is the fact it seems to really be machine dependent: some of us are really affected by those "VFA" (no matter if it's really VFA or belt ripples here) and others don't seem to be this much affected (or maybe not as sensitive about it).
I hope that it's just a matter of bent bracket on the printer or something hardware related that can be "easily" fixed or improved.
Let's wait to see how it will evolve!
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
Maybe they actually didnt see that amount of VFAs on their testing machines, but as production scaled up some machine got worse due to tolerances in parts and the assembly process that they could not forsee due to being a very small development team. Its a tricky subject when going from lab test mules to full serial production, thats why in the product development world there are alot of building of products out of tooling before stuff are sent out to customers, in this case it seemed like they went directly out to customers in a hurry to get it out on the market. Though to be fair that seems quite common in this business.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
Anyhow we do not see the same level of VFA internally. We are fetching some machines back to investigate. My guess is that it can be worsened by multiple little things during transport, kit assembly etc, so the outcome will be a mix of a checklist, improved build instructions for kit builders and FW optimization.
Until Prusa actually comes through with those checklists and instructions, and they prove to significantly reduce VFAs, I am taking this statement as defensive tactics. "Oh, we don't see that problem in-house" is a classic...
Yes, the build instructions could do with some improvement -- e.g. for aligning the over-constrained Z drive. But looking at all the thought and debate here on the forum which has gone into trying to troubleshoot the VFAs, I would be really surprised if Prusa came up with a "just be sure to check this adjustment" breakthrough. Sure, improper belt tension can make things even worse, but we are well beyond that stage of troubleshooting already.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
Can confirm the phase stepping calibration wizard works on the v6.3.3 firmware. I'll put on a print and compare tomorrow.
I did run the phase stepping wizard last night. The results were something like 45% on the x axis and 65% on the y axis. I then reprinted a part with noticeable VFAs. The printer was less noisy but print quality, sadly show no difference. The new part is on top:
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
Can confirm the phase stepping calibration wizard works on the v6.3.3 firmware. I'll put on a print and compare tomorrow.
I did run the phase stepping wizard last night. The results were something like 45% on the x axis and 65% on the y axis. I then reprinted a part with noticeable VFAs. The printer was less noisy but print quality, sadly show no difference.
Less noisy regarding general noise, or did it have an impact on resonance noises at specific speeds?
Those resonance noises really bothered me, I would be quite happy if they disappeared after calibration.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
Interesting response from Josef, with a hint of gaslighting thrown in 😂
As I've mentioned before, the VFA issue doesn't affect me greatly (right now) as the parts I print and sell are mainly printed in matte and fibre infused filaments. But that's not really the point...if at some point I do choose to use glossy filaments I would like to know I can do so without issue.
At least the issue seems to be getting more traction now, and how this issue is handled (and hopefully resolved) will have a great bearing on the printers I buy. I'll need at least one more printer in the coming months, possibly more, but Im definitely not pulling the trigger on more Core Ones until I see how this plays out.
Communication is key here, I mean this isn't even really public acknowledgement of the issue by a Prusa employee.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
Can confirm the phase stepping calibration wizard works on the v6.3.3 firmware. I'll put on a print and compare tomorrow.
I did run the phase stepping wizard last night. The results were something like 45% on the x axis and 65% on the y axis. I then reprinted a part with noticeable VFAs. The printer was less noisy but print quality, sadly show no difference.
Less noisy regarding general noise, or did it have an impact on resonance noises at specific speeds?
Those resonance noises really bothered me, I would be quite happy if they disappeared after calibration.
Oh, yes we are talking about those resonance noises. It really bothered me too, I couldn't really have the printer printing in the same room as I was working. Even using stealth mode.