RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
Yep, mine was at 97-100Hz on both belts when I got it. The Prusa app tuning page says 80-90Hz with 85Hz being the optimum, which is different than the 80Hz mentioned there. I guess I can go retune mine down from 85 to 80 and see if that does anything. I can't see it making much of an observable difference, though.
The question I'd have about that is, how much overtightening does it take to screw up the belts?
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
So stealth mode is not a way to go if you care about VFAs and if you want to minimize them.
But conversely, if one is interested in using stealth mode (because the printer is set up in the study, flat, office...), one may be interested in a printer which produces little VFAs in that mode. I assume that's where @baztm is coming from.
Ideally, the operating mode of the printer should not be determined (and limited) by the need to work around VFAs somehow. Rather, Prusa and/or us users should be able to align and optimize the printer such that it produces good prints in every desired operating mode.
RE:
Idealerweise sollte der Betriebsmodus des Druckers nicht durch die Notwendigkeit, VFAs irgendwie zu umgehen, bestimmt (und eingeschränkt) werden. Vielmehr sollten Prusa und/oder wir Anwender in der Lage sein, den Drucker so auszurichten und zu optimieren, dass er in jedem gewünschten Betriebsmodus gute Drucke liefert.
Dies wird herstellerübergreifend ein Wunsch bleiben.
It will always be a problem because of the long belts and many pulleys.
Daher wäre es sinnvoll, wenn Prusa Slicer über die Funktion verfügen würden, dass der äußere Perimeter nicht gebremst wird.
So können Sie sich genau im optimalen Bereich aufhalten.
RE:
F5'ing on the github for about a week now...
I've tried everal belt tension frequencies, never saw any difference. The only problem is that if i go at 80Hz, the homing-headbanging is taking way longer.
I settled for around 85-ish.
I think i said this before, but my Bambu P1S has the exact same problem, VFA disappear at certain speeds.
My Voron doesn't have this issue.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
It would therefore make sense for Prusa Slicer to have the function that the outer perimeter is not slowed down.
This would allow you to stay precisely in the best area.
Unless you want, say, a glossy PLA print. Which happens to be one of the things I want to print next: glittery (so it seems that PLA is my only choice) and glossy (so I need to print the outer layers slowly). Does that mean there is no hope to avoid VFAs in that print?
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
You have to print quite quickly so that it no longer shines with glossy pla. Otherwise reduce the layer height.
In any case, you can then control it specifically.
The surface is also more homogeneous.
Only advantages, and should be no problem to implement by Orca Slicer.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
It would therefore make sense for Prusa Slicer to have the function that the outer perimeter is not slowed down.
This would allow you to stay precisely in the best area.
Unless you want, say, a glossy PLA print. Which happens to be one of the things I want to print next: glittery (so it seems that PLA is my only choice) and glossy (so I need to print the outer layers slowly). Does that mean there is no hope to avoid VFAs in that print?
Glossy PLA means properly melted PLA. Which you get when you don't exceed volumetric flow rate for that material. Printing speed is only one factor. If you want to keep certain printing speed, you can adjust other things. Like print with smaller layers, use smaller nozzle (= smaller extrusion width), use high flow nozzle, or increase the hotend temperature (faster you print, faster you drain heat from the hotend and it may not keep up).
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
Printing fast doesn't fix anything. The artefacts are still there, they're just invisible because the print is turning matte due to insufficient melting. I have one silk that stays shiny despite cranking up speed and it still shows artefacts at those high speeds. This isn't a typical coreXY rippling that disappears at certain speeds, this is happening on all speeds. You can't even crank up temp enough to keep most PLA shiny at those speeds, especially silks. There's a point where baking filament further doesn't help anymore and only introduces more issues.
Furthermore, you can't keep that single high speed on the entirety of the print. It will slow down for overhangs and bridges and such. If you disable this slowing down, the print will look horrible.
This is a workaround that works only for people who don't melt their plastic sufficiently. Not for people who want actually good looking prints with proper interlayer strength.
As it stands, Core One is useless. It prints horrible and there's no escape.
I am still testing mine and waiting for new parts to arrive, but so far I've isolated the worst rippling on one diagonal (so strong you can play a tune by scratching it with a fingernail), while the other diagonal has minimal rippling (most likely fixable with phase stepping). Pure X is pristine best I've seen ever. Pure Y has a very faint ripple, lesser than the better diagonal.
Seems to be connected to a specific belt path in my case. I will be fiddling with the pulley since it was a known issue with the MK4 rippling. If the artefact swaps diagonals on pulley swap between motors, we have a culprit. If not, something else on this specific path is out of spec.
All in all, I will post my findings once I get the hardware.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
Your print seems better than OP with SM, but could you try to print it in regular non-stealth please? 🙂
I reprinted the same file without stealth mode, and to my eyes the two prints are indistinguishable. In the following photos the upper print is with stealth mode enabled and the lower print is without.
RE:
I was curious to know if the texture on the front face (the pink side) was due to the printer or the filament, so I printed the box again in a matte black PLA that extrudes more normally than the silk PLA. When I see the silk PLA being purged from the nozzle during load it's clear that there's something different about it - it emerges as a short fat springy tail from the nozzle, almost as though it's foaming, whereas the matte black emerges as a long thin strand, just like most other filaments. I think I'm now of the opinion that the texture on the pink front face is mostly due to the fact that the silk PLA doesn't go down as smoothly as a conventional filament - perhaps there's a little bit of that 'foaming' behaviour as it lays down the strands.
In the first photo, that textured finish is much reduced in the black version, and in fact there's now a hint of the VFA rippling emerging from the noise, albeit at a very very low level. In the other photos the VFAs are still present, but they appear much less pronounced due to the different reflective properties of this filament. The photos were taken with the lighting 'just so' to try to capture the surface irregularities, but turning the black box over less critically in my hands it looks very clean indeed.
@baztm - I don't have many PLA filaments, but I have plenty of PETG. Would you be so kind as to re-slice your model for generic PETG so that I can try it with a typical glossy filament?
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
I was curious to know if the texture on the front face (the pink side) was due to the printer or the filament, so I printed the box again in a matte black PLA that extrudes more normally than the silk PLA. When I see the silk PLA being purged from the nozzle during load it's clear that there's something different about it - it emerges as a short fat springy tail from the nozzle, almost as though it's foaming, whereas the matte black emerges as a long thin strand, just like most other filaments. I think I'm now of the opinion that the texture on the pink front face is mostly due to the fact that the silk PLA doesn't go down as smoothly as a conventional filament - perhaps there's a little bit of that 'foaming' behaviour as it lays down the strands.
In the first photo, that textured finish is much reduced in the black version, and in fact there's now a hint of the VFA rippling emerging from the noise, albeit at a very very low level. In the other photos the VFAs are still present, but they appear much less pronounced due to the different reflective properties of this filament. The photos were taken with the lighting 'just so' to try to capture the surface irregularities, but turning the black box over less critically in my hands it looks very clean indeed.
@baztm - I don't have many PLA filaments, but I have plenty of PETG. Would you be so kind as to re-slice your model for generic PETG so that I can try it with a typical glossy filament?
Did you print that with fuzzy skin?
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
Did you print that with fuzzy skin?
It's @baztm's gcode, but I'm sure it does not have fuzzy skin enabled. The black print is with a matte black PLA, which always has that look, which is why I'm suggesting a glossy PETG print.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
Posted by: @altaic
Did you print that with fuzzy skin?
It's @baztm's gcode, but I'm sure it does not have fuzzy skin enabled. The black print is with a matte black PLA, which always has that look, which is why I'm suggesting a glossy PETG print.
In that case, the walls should not look like that. Something odd is going on there.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
You'll have to elaborate - are you referring to one print in particular, and if so, are you worried about the matte black or the silk tri-colour? Is it all faces that you're concerned about, or just that front face?
I'm not sure I share your concerns. Lighting plays a big part in how a print looks in these photos, especially with this matte filament. Here's a shot showing a more close-up view of the latest print (on the left) and a similar print I did on my MK4S a few months ago with the same filament when it was fresher out of the box. They're separated by the lid of the recently printed box. The one on the right may be showing some wear and tear, and granted, the filament on the left could probably do with a bit of drying by now. But to my eyes the surface texture is quite comparable.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
I printed a purge bin for my CORE One. I used Prusament ASA, so I expected it to be a bit of a challenge, given its size and shape and the tendency for ASA to warp. But with the default pre-heating it printed really well - I saw the chamber reach 54 degrees during the print. Other than a bit of a Benchy hull line where the floor becomes the walls, it's a super clean print with no warping.
I had to print it diagonally on the bed due to its size. There are VFAs on the long sides if I look for them with a critical eye, but from any normal distance it just looks clean.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
I asked her, and she later said that 85 was optimal. She made a mistake. Sorry for the confusion.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
I printed a purge bin for my CORE One. I used Prusament ASA, so I expected it to be a bit of a challenge, given its size and shape and the tendency for ASA to warp. But with the default pre-heating it printed really well - I saw the chamber reach 54 degrees during the print. Other than a bit of a Benchy hull line where the floor becomes the walls, it's a super clean print with no warping.
I had to print it diagonally on the bed due to its size. There are VFAs on the long sides if I look for them with a critical eye, but from any normal distance it just looks clean.
Indeed it looks nice! Standard settings?
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
Looks indeed okay, but if I compare it to my other printer, I wouldn't think about using the Core One to print stuff I'd sell...
I printed a purge bin for my CORE One. I used Prusament ASA, so I expected it to be a bit of a challenge, given its size and shape and the tendency for ASA to warp. But with the default pre-heating it printed really well - I saw the chamber reach 54 degrees during the print. Other than a bit of a Benchy hull line where the floor becomes the walls, it's a super clean print with no warping.
I had to print it diagonally on the bed due to its size. There are VFAs on the long sides if I look for them with a critical eye, but from any normal distance it just looks clean.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
Indeed it looks nice! Standard settings?
Yes, on a recently purchased textured PEI powder coated sheet with a bit of glue stick for good measure.
RE:
For the statistics my values for Input Shaper.
X: MZV 41hz
Y: ZVD 61hzAnother specimen where the Y resonance frequency is much higher than X. How can that be, with the moving mass in Y being much larger?
Actually -- do we know whether "X" and "Y" refer to the movement axes of the print head here, or to the two motors which are labelled X and Y in the Core One (but each drive diagonal movement when moving on their own)? If it's the former, I would expect the Y resonance frequency to be lower than X. If it's the latter, I would expect both frequencies to be roughly equal. But Y higher than X does not make sense to me.
Here's mine:
X: MZV 41hz
Y: ZVD 51hz
The VFAs are present, but only really on shiny filaments. I hate shiny filaments so tend to use matte most of the time, and then VFAs are completely invisible.
My Core One is on a paver on a desk that is ok stability wise, but the carpet in that room is very thick, meaning both my desks have a fair bit of wobble.
My two options to make it more stable is to somehow mount something directly to a wall, or cut some holes in the carpet...the other half isn't thrilled with either of my 'solutions' 😂