RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
I have not found any technical documentation on what Prusa calls "phase stepping", and a superficial look at the source code was not enough to confirm what it does. Has anyone already dived deeper?
I’ve been familiarizing myself to the firmware code, but I don’t have that answer yet. The TMC2130 data sheet describes a couple relevant modes, so on my next code dive I’m planning to find where the mode is set and reverse engineer from there.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
IIRC someone here swapped the smooth belt idlers for toothed. Did that help at all?
If I have seen it correctly, the belts all run with the smooth side over the rollers, except on the engine.
I also find this video interesting because it fits the topic.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
If I have seen it correctly, the belts all run with the smooth side over the rollers, except on the engine.
Some of them run with their ribs over the smooth rollers, as I have just seen in the video.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
IIRC someone here swapped the smooth belt idlers for toothed. Did that help at all?
If I have seen it correctly, the belts all run with the smooth side over the rollers, except on the engine.
I also find this video interesting because it fits the topic.
There are two rollers, that have contact with the toothed side.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
I am not this kind of electrical engineer, but I was reading the data sheet as well. From what I can guess - it probably has something to do with the sine-wave look up table that is provided for microstep current. It seems like this LUT can be configured:
The TMC2130 provides a programmable look-up table for storing the microstep current wave. As a default, the table is pre-programmed with a sine wave, which is a good starting point for most stepper motors. Reprogramming the table to a motor specific wave allows drastically improved microstepping especially with low-cost motors.
But, thats mostly just a guess. It seems that there is some amount of micro stepping interpolation that can be configured as well.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
If I remember correctly, that's exactly how it should work. Different speeds/acceleration result in resonances which are sometimes louder and sometimes quieter. It's not a linear process since it also depends on your environment where the printer I'd located.
You might be confusing this with input shaping? I don't think accelerations are relevant at all for the phase stepping corrections; it's all about moving at constant speed.
And while the printer may respond differently at different motions speeds (due to hitting mechanical resonances with the motor step frequency), iteratively optimizing and smoothing out the stepping pattern (at a given speed) should result in the printer getting quieter and quieter.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
I've put toothed idlers on the XL and it made no notable difference.
I have some for the Core One and will put them on when I get the printer and they release the printable parts (these are needed to modify for the 1mm wider pulley), but I don't expect it to make any difference.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
I think I will buy a kit. I'm sure they will have the issues fixed before shipping (july at least).
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
Wow, brilliant choice! XL’s been broken since day one—two years and still can’t function. Then they made Core One, knowing all the XL issues… and somehow made it worse. But hey, clearly that’s the sign of a trustworthy brand, right? Yeah, definitely sounds like a smart buy.
I think I will buy a kit. I'm sure they will have the issues fixed before shipping (july at least).
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
What do you mean with broken?
I have over 5000 print hours on my XL without a single issue. I do multi material prints with TPU/PETG/PLA all the time and couldn't work without it anymore.
Wow, brilliant choice! XL’s been broken since day one—two years and still can’t function. Then they made Core One, knowing all the XL issues… and somehow made it worse. But hey, clearly that’s the sign of a trustworthy brand, right? Yeah, definitely sounds like a smart buy.
I think I will buy a kit. I'm sure they will have the issues fixed before shipping (july at least).
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
Wow, brilliant choice! XL’s been broken since day one—two years and still can’t function. Then they made Core One, knowing all the XL issues… and somehow made it worse. But hey, clearly that’s the sign of a trustworthy brand, right? Yeah, definitely sounds like a smart buy.
I think I will buy a kit. I'm sure they will have the issues fixed before shipping (july at least).
My XL works fine. Around 5000 hours on mine as well. It has slight VFA's but it's hardly broken. Works great. I haven't uploaded any recent videos but here's one of a 48 hour print I did. I did 4 of these back to back without any issues. Just because a few people have had issues doesn't mean everyone has.
https://youtube.com/shorts/41k47_w_-eE?si=nmgF-J7TV-Xicpa4
Here's another I did with PETG/PLA with zero clearance support.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
Wow, brilliant choice! XL’s been broken since day one—two years and still can’t function. Then they made Core One, knowing all the XL issues… and somehow made it worse. But hey, clearly that’s the sign of a trustworthy brand, right? Yeah, definitely sounds like a smart buy.
I think I will buy a kit. I'm sure they will have the issues fixed before shipping (july at least).
I bought a CORE One preassembled but had to send it back because of very visible VFA at all speeds and pretty loud resonance noises.
I asked for a refund but I'm ready to order one again, but this time as a kit so I can assemble myself a triple check every steps, as I did for every Prusa printers I have.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
Sorry but you have ugly surface finish in your prints, that is what I’m saying about XL, lot of big VFA and smaller artifacts.
A1 could do better 😅, i think even ender can do better
Wow, brilliant choice! XL’s been broken since day one—two years and still can’t function. Then they made Core One, knowing all the XL issues… and somehow made it worse. But hey, clearly that’s the sign of a trustworthy brand, right? Yeah, definitely sounds like a smart buy.
I think I will buy a kit. I'm sure they will have the issues fixed before shipping (july at least).
My XL works fine. Around 5000 hours on mine as well. It has slight VFA's but it's hardly broken. Works great. I haven't uploaded any recent videos but here's one of a 48 hour print I did. I did 4 of these back to back without any issues. Just because a few people have had issues doesn't mean everyone has.
https://youtube.com/shorts/41k47_w_-eE?si=nmgF-J7TV-Xicpa4
Here's another I did with PETG/PLA with zero clearance support.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
I tried the M1977. It starts with a diagonal travel path (back and forth) with two and one(micro?-) steps at the turn-around points. Then I get a reboot that ends in a BSOD. After manual reset, the printer seems to work again. No factory reset necessary for me. Doing IS calibration directly before did not make a difference.
RE:
Sorry but you have ugly surface finish in your prints, that is what I’m saying about XL, lot of big VFA and smaller artifacts.
A1 could do better 😅, i think even ender can do better
Wow, brilliant choice! XL’s been broken since day one—two years and still can’t function. Then they made Core One, knowing all the XL issues… and somehow made it worse. But hey, clearly that’s the sign of a trustworthy brand, right? Yeah, definitely sounds like a smart buy.
I think I will buy a kit. I'm sure they will have the issues fixed before shipping (july at least).
My XL works fine. Around 5000 hours on mine as well. It has slight VFA's but it's hardly broken. Works great. I haven't uploaded any recent videos but here's one of a 48 hour print I did. I did 4 of these back to back without any issues. Just because a few people have had issues doesn't mean everyone has.
https://youtube.com/shorts/41k47_w_-eE?si=nmgF-J7TV-Xicpa4
Here's another I did with PETG/PLA with zero clearance support.
Sounds like you've already made up your mind. So why are you here?
Ive also seen lots of Bambu prints with just as much or worse. Check out the Bambu forum.
Let's see some pictures of your circular ender prints in shiny black PETG.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
Every Bambu printer that I tried had VFA's, just like every other FDM printer on the market right now.
If you have a Bambu machine try to print something with 120mm/s on the outer perimeter and show me the result.
Sorry but you have ugly surface finish in your prints, that is what I’m saying about XL, lot of big VFA and smaller artifacts.
A1 could do better 😅, i think even ender can do better
Wow, brilliant choice! XL’s been broken since day one—two years and still can’t function. Then they made Core One, knowing all the XL issues… and somehow made it worse. But hey, clearly that’s the sign of a trustworthy brand, right? Yeah, definitely sounds like a smart buy.
I think I will buy a kit. I'm sure they will have the issues fixed before shipping (july at least).
My XL works fine. Around 5000 hours on mine as well. It has slight VFA's but it's hardly broken. Works great. I haven't uploaded any recent videos but here's one of a 48 hour print I did. I did 4 of these back to back without any issues. Just because a few people have had issues doesn't mean everyone has.
https://youtube.com/shorts/41k47_w_-eE?si=nmgF-J7TV-Xicpa4
Here's another I did with PETG/PLA with zero clearance support.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
Last year I made numerous of prints with my XL comparing the print quality with the MK4/MMU3. Sometimes one was better, sometimes it was the other, but globally I found the MK4 quality slightly higher on random prints. I have never specifically noticed those VFA / belt ripple but hey, now that I have it very visible on my CORE One, I can see that they were present on the XL too. Maybe it is just me who is more finicky?
I suspect that the combinaison of a better regularity on the motion, a better heating with the HF nozzle and conservative profiles that make the prints glossy like mirrors and the LEDs strip just in front of the print are revealing as hell the even slightest surface distorsion. When I compare with the MK4S the surface is more... fuzzy, then it could perfectly hide this kind of defect.
I made some comparison prints using a glossy black PETG (not dried), worst case. Plus, default profile for each printer, not necessarily adapted to this filament but it's a Prusa, it should handle that.
Bottom to top:
- CORE One straight out of the box
- CORE One after having square X and re-tensionned the belts
- XL
- MK4S
Sorry for the dust and fingerprints, I just saved them from my trash bin. 😆
First picture with the LEDs strip from the CORE One.
Second picture using a single point light source.
What do you think?
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
The Core One prints look just like mine. And I can say working on the hardware doesn't change anything 😀
Last year I made numerous of prints with my XL comparing the print quality with the MK4/MMU3. Sometimes one was better, sometimes it was the other, but globally I found the MK4 quality slightly higher on random prints. I have never specifically noticed those VFA / belt ripple but hey, now that I have it very visible on my CORE One, I can see that they were present on the XL too. Maybe it is just me who is more finicky?
I suspect that the combinaison of a better regularity on the motion, a better heating with the HF nozzle and conservative profiles that make the prints glossy like mirrors and the LEDs strip just in front of the print are revealing as hell the even slightest surface distorsion. When I compare with the MK4S the surface is more... fuzzy, then it could perfectly hide this kind of defect.
I made some comparison prints using a glossy black PETG (not dried), worst case. Plus, default profile for each printer, not necessarily adapted to this filament but it's a Prusa, it should handle that.
Bottom to top:
- CORE One straight out of the box
- CORE One after having square X and re-tensionned the belts
- XL
- MK4S
Sorry for the dust and fingerprints, I just saved them from my trash bin. 😆
First picture with the LEDs strip from the CORE One.
Second picture using a single point light source.
What do you think?
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
I’m here because I bought XL before release of H2D. I needed big printer and still don’t have it, because XL prints bad.
About VFA in bambu - Of course they have it, but you can tweak the speed, acceleration or jerk a little, staying in safe speed and flowrate for model and material, and print it good, just need to make custom slicer Presets. I have never had a quality problem which I can’t resolve with slicer settings.
With Prusa I can’t get any good quality in speeds 25-100mms. Higher i haven’t tried due to petg vase prints with 0.8mm nozzle. Lot of tweaks with acceleration, jerk, custom IS values, etc.
Sorry but you have ugly surface finish in your prints, that is what I’m saying about XL, lot of big VFA and smaller artifacts.
A1 could do better 😅, i think even ender can do better
Wow, brilliant choice! XL’s been broken since day one—two years and still can’t function. Then they made Core One, knowing all the XL issues… and somehow made it worse. But hey, clearly that’s the sign of a trustworthy brand, right? Yeah, definitely sounds like a smart buy.
I think I will buy a kit. I'm sure they will have the issues fixed before shipping (july at least).
My XL works fine. Around 5000 hours on mine as well. It has slight VFA's but it's hardly broken. Works great. I haven't uploaded any recent videos but here's one of a 48 hour print I did. I did 4 of these back to back without any issues. Just because a few people have had issues doesn't mean everyone has.
https://youtube.com/shorts/41k47_w_-eE?si=nmgF-J7TV-Xicpa4
Here's another I did with PETG/PLA with zero clearance support.
Sounds like you've already made up your mind. So why are you here?
Ive also seen lots of Bambu prints with just as much or worse. Check out the Bambu forum.
Let's see some pictures of your circular ender prints in shiny black PETG.
RE: VFA Artifacts on X+Y Straight Edges
I have prepared VFA tests for Core One from 40 to 350 mm/s. Enjoy!
I observe significant VFAs at 80 and 90 mm/s, some at 110 mm/s and a little below 80 and at 160 and 170 mm/s. The rest is ok, especially the higher printing speeds.
Seems like the silent mode off and SPEED printing profiles are the way to go!