RE: The Core One Kit Waiting List
I've ordered mine today, now I'm reading this forum and I'm pretty sure, that I will wait for a long time 🙁
RE: The Core One Kit Waiting List
"Fri/Jan 31 2025/17:09:01" is my order. Lets see how much i'm ahead. I'll report if the status changes.
RE: The Core One Kit Waiting List
I also volunteer to test/evaluate building the kit.
As a ( unique?) 'selling point' I have never owned, build nor used a Prusa product. If I can follow the instructions they are bound to be idiot proof. 😀
I have been writing educational material in the past and done some software testing years ago.
Pea
RE: The Core One Kit Waiting List
First things first: I don't mind to wait some more weeks for my kit... shipping starts in march, that's maybe the first ten orders, so for 98% of us it was april at best all the time.
But i don't get the argumentation about the instructions... there must be some kind of instructions and people are building these printers with these instructions...
So (if the kits are packed and ready to go) why not sent them out with a big reclaimer that the instructions are beta-status... even without any instructions it would clear storage space at the prusa facility... and people could start that second, the instructions are uploaded...
Like i told at the beginning... no problems to wait, but i dont get their strategy.
RE: The Core One Kit Waiting List
Because that’s not a good customer experience. You and a few on this form are a minority for people who want it with whatever the instructions are. From a business standpoint, they need to make sure the experience is to the level Prusa expects. While a few of you might be willing beta testers, the overwhelming majority do not want that. And as the saying goes, give a customer a good and positive experience and they might tell one person. Give a customer a bad experience and they’ll definitely tell 10 people.
RE: The Core One Kit Waiting List
there must be some kind of instructions and people are building these printers with these instructions...
So (if the kits are packed and ready to go) why not sent them out with a big reclaimer that the instructions are beta-status
I would assume that the build technicians at the Prusa factory are trained hands-on -- a manufacturing engineer walking them through the steps of building a new printer model, and looking over their shoulder when they first do it on their own. So the written instructions for these technicians can be far less detailed than what an end customer will need: They essentially serve as reminders of which step to do next and what to check for, not as detailed explanations how to do each step properly.
Also, manufacturing may use special jigs and fixtures to make assembly and alignment quicker. End users won't have these and hence need to use different processes and tools.
Just publishing the manufacturing instructions would be far from "beta instructions" for users. Prusa would set themselves up for a support nightmare if they let users try and build printers based on these... Also there's product liability: They need to provider adequate user instructions which enable the customer to use (and in this case build) the product safely. They can't work around that by just adding a disclaimer which says "By the way, these instructions are inadequate." 😉
RE: The Core One Kit Waiting List
Is this thread turning in an auditioning list for beta-builders? LOL
--> MK4 - MK4S - MINI+ - MMU3 - Accelerometer Guide - BambuLab A1 Combo <--
RE: The Core One Kit Waiting List
People are just so impatient 🤣
Is this thread turning in an auditioning list for beta-builders? LOL
RE:
Ok, factory instructions might not be enough, but you could offer the option to ship the kit without (!) instructions with all it's consequences (warranty starts earlier, etc...), maybe with a big sticker on it "Do not open, until we tell you to" or something, so people could start building once the instructions are ready. And they could hide this option behind a series of confirmation buttons "Do you really want that?", Do you really, really want that?", "Do you really, really, really want that?"... 😉
Because now we all wait twice... first for the instructions to be finished and second for our unit to pe processed and shipped. The second period could easily be avoided.
That's all assuming that the kits are already finished and they won't change any parts during the instruction process... and maybe that's why they don't ship out now, because maybe (just maybe) they'll have to add or change a part to make it work as they want it to and then they'll have to sent these parts in seperate parcels...
By keeping the kits inhouse, they keep all options, so i guess it makes sense. But still... ^^
RE:
Shipping the printers without or with incomplete/buggy instructions would result in a customer support and PR nightmare! Even if the printer would come in a box with a big letters saying "DO NOT ASSEMBLE UNTIL FINAL INSTRUCTIONS ARE AVAILABLE" you can bet your ass people would ignore that, start building the printer anyway, and inevitably get stuck, break something, or end up with a poorly performing printer. Those people will then flock to Customer Support demanding fixes, replacements and refunds, and the internet would be flooded with poor reviews. No amount of warnings or disclaimers can prevent that. No, while I do have an opinion on the build instructions apparently being the bottle-neck, I totally understand why Prusa does NOT want to ship kits as long as the build instructions are not absolutely perfect.
By keeping the kits inhouse, they keep all options, so i guess it makes sense. But still... ^^
RE: The Core One Kit Waiting List
I have beta tested a lot. I would love to join the Prusa party.
Is this thread turning in an auditioning list for beta-builders? LOL
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Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog
RE: The Core One Kit Waiting List
I have beta tested a lot. I would love to join the Prusa party.
Is this thread turning in an auditioning list for beta-builders? LOL
I don't think we will get a choice whether we want to be beta testers. My point was that the recipients of the first batch of kits apparently will serve as beta testers, whether they want it -- or even know it -- or not. The statement from Prusa support that they will ship a first batch, then deliberately wait a while to see how things are going, then resume shipments, implies that.
With my first-day, 17:07 order I might qualify... Let's see how this goes. Worst-case, e.g. if the printer turns out really noisy and Prusa does not come through with a fix, I can always send the completed printer back within 60 days. That's reassuring to know, and a great policy from Prusa.
RE: The Core One Kit Waiting List
the recipients of the first batch of kits apparently will serve as beta testers, whether they want it -- or even know it -- or not.
That's quite the assumption there to call it "beta testing". Though I can see where it's coming from.
No matter how perfect you think you have designed a process to be and no matter how much internal testing and validation has been done. Every time something ships to customers (software and hardware alike) there are inevitably things that will surface. To call that "beta testing" is doing things a disservice. In my opinion it is actually good and honest that they are open about having such a "built in hold", where they will evaluate if everything is going well or if they have to adjust anything.
Personally I'd refer to this as "Early Adopter" (or even earliest) phase. Across pretty much every industry there will be revisions to products after launch. Most of those are not advertised or even kept secret, as inevitably someone would call the earliest shipping revisions inferior or in case of software a "banana product", even if changes would be cosmetic and without significant impact. Of course there are also less honest companies, that will just not talk about major flaws fixed and simply let their Warranty / RMA process handle this.
There is a very simple, yet very unpopular option among enthusiasts to deal with this: Don't be the first to buy/order. The choice is yours.
If one is concerned, they could approach Prusa support about being set back in the shipping queue.
Personally I am convinced that the team has strong "quality gates" in place to ensure that whatever the first customers get is as good as it possibly can be, with no known hardware issues at time of shipping.
RE: The Core One Kit Waiting List
That's quite the assumption there to call it "beta testing". [...]
Personally I'd refer to this as "Early Adopter" (or even earliest) phase. [...]
Personally I am convinced that the team has strong "quality gates" in place to ensure that whatever the first customers get is as good as it possibly can be, with no known hardware issues at time of shipping.
Agree, calling it "beta testing" is a bit provocative. Obviously proper beta testing is done with a group of pilot customers who are aware that they are beta testers, are typically under an NDA during the phase of advance access to the product, are in close contact with the company, and get some form of remuneration for their efforts. None of this applies here.
"Early adopters" would typically get a special discount if the company knows that there may be early flaws in the product -- to encourage them to buy the product nevertheless and to compensate them for any loss of time and materials that are likely to result from these flaws. Prusa can get away without this due to their loyal customers.
Based on the reports from early assembled Core Ones, I am not so convinced about the "no known hardware issues at time of shipping". E.g. Prusa must have realized that some units would be very noisy and produce strong VFA artefacts in the prints. Why else would they have had phase stepping calibration in the pipeline as a countermeasure? But they decided to ship the printers anyway.
Likewise, Prusa seem to expect that things go wrong with the early kits -- why else would they plan to deliberately pause shipment to avoid too many support cases? So they consider their own beta testing inadequate, and plan for an extended beta test with the early customers. As mentioned earlier, personally I'm alright with that and trust that I can handle the kit. But I think they should have made this "extended beta testing" -- or "early adopter program", if you prefer -- official and visible.
RE: The Core One Kit Waiting List
Who claims that Prusa interrupts the kit delivery? Why would they do that?Prusa has been making kits since the beginning.
They have enough experience with creating instructions that work. Many complicated parts like the print head are almost identical to the MK4.
The instructions are constantly being improved, also through comments that are made there. This in no way affects the hardware, which consists of the same components as the assembled printers.
Just like the rumour that the kits are already in stock and are just waiting for the instructions. Sorry, that's bullshit and makes no sense at all.
Prusa packs hardware into boxes that it urgently needs for the production of the assembled printers. Ties up materials and labour that are urgently needed in production and leaves all the money in urgently needed storage space that also costs money?
Why would you do that and not sell as many assembled printers as possible first?
Where the margin is even higher than with the kits. That's why they are sold first and some people who don't want to wait buy the assembled one. The kits mean at least as much effort for Prusa and the profit is smaller.
If it was that easy with the VFA, Bambulab would have solved it long ago. It depends on so many factors.
I can only say that every Prusa has delivered for me so far. Maybe not immediately, but over the years it gets better and better, like good wine.
The things that Prusa supposedly does or doesn't do are being interpreted here again......
RE:
Who claims that Prusa interrupts the kit delivery?
Prusa support does, according to this report:
Posted by: @rogerwilco75
[...] That’s where my frustration started, leading me to insist a bit more (if you say shipping starting in March it is not very nice to see TBA in mid March on your order)… only to receive further clarification that "the first kits will start shipping in March… then we will monitor the situation for a couple of weeks and restart after that."
Regarding your argument "If they had the materials, they would ship more assembled printers -- so the kit shipment must be gated by materials":
We have discussed here multiple times that probably the shipping rate for assembled printers is limited not by material supply but by assembly capacity (manpower). We don't have proof that this is the case, but we have @iftibashir's word for it, and it is also very plausible: Materials do not "trickle" into the factory the way the assembled printers trickle out -- rather, they come in large batches, and a materials shortage would result in extended periods without any shipments.
The observed "trickle" of assembled printers is much more consistent with manpower limitations. In which case it is also entirely plausible that ample materials for the kits are already on hand.
RE: The Core One Kit Waiting List
Honestly, do I believe an obviously annoyed user? Rather no.
So far, and I always buy the kits on the first day,
I haven't noticed any delay after the first batchPrusa manufactures many parts in-house. They often can't keep up with production.This has often led to delays in delivery.
But it's pointless to discuss what we don't know. Ultimately, it doesn't matter. The kits are delivered when everything is ready.
RE: The Core One Kit Waiting List
I am not sure I would trust any of the quotes posted on the forum. I am not saying that people are lying or purposely misleading. I am saying that it often is their interpretation of what is said.
For example: "the first kits will start shipping in March… then we will monitor the situation for a couple of weeks and restart after that." One person interprets that as an interruption of deliveries. That might be true, but it does not indicate how long. A day, a week, a month? I suspect that the person answering it trying to explain how Prusa goes from TBD to giving a date. This has been explained before. They open the assembly line for a few days to weeks and measure assembly times, boxing times, and pick up times and use them to estimate deliveries of the orders. Then they "restart" the process with estimated delivery times.
If it does not come from official releases from the company, I would never allow it to ruffle my feathers or upset me.
Who claims that Prusa interrupts the kit delivery?
Prusa support does, according to this report:
Posted by: @rogerwilco75
[...] That’s where my frustration started, leading me to insist a bit more (if you say shipping starting in March it is not very nice to see TBA in mid March on your order)… only to receive further clarification that "the first kits will start shipping in March… then we will monitor the situation for a couple of weeks and restart after that."
Regarding your argument "If they had the materials, they would ship more assembled printers -- so the kit shipment must be gated by materials":
We have discussed here multiple times that probably the shipping rate for assembled printers is limited not by material supply but by assembly capacity (manpower). We don't have proof that this is the case, but we have @iftibashir's word for it, and it is also very plausible: Materials do not "trickle" into the factory the way the assembled printers trickle out -- rather, they come in large batches, and a materials shortage would result in extended periods without any shipments.
The observed "trickle" of assembled printers is much more consistent with manpower limitations. In which case it is also entirely plausible that ample materials for the kits are already on hand.
I too am waiting on a kit and two upgrades. I have one printer that I am holding off repairing till I get the Core One Kit. I refuse to let that which I can not change bother me.
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Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog
RE: The Core One Kit Waiting List
For example: "the first kits will start shipping in March… then we will monitor the situation for a couple of weeks and restart after that." One person interprets that as an interruption of deliveries. That might be true, but it does not indicate how long. A day, a week, a month?
I am not a native speaker of English, but I thought that "a couple of weeks" either means "two weeks" in the strict sense, or "a few weeks", i.e. anywhere from more than one to, say, four? Not an entirely accurate time indication, but good enough for me. And in line with the wait that's required to see how the first group of builders manage.
If they "restart" after a couple of weeks, they must have stopped (deliveries) before, right? I can't come up with a different interpretation at the moment.
I too am waiting on a kit and two upgrades. I have one printer that I am holding off repairing till I get the Core One Kit. I refuse to let that which I can not change bother me.
I am not bothered by the wait. But am intrigued (and indeed a bit bothered) by the "wait and observe how it goes" period in the plan.
Well, I guess we will see a delivery schedule from Prusa eventually and can check whether it shows a gap. Or we will reverse-engineer one from the posts in this thread when people start receiving their kits. 😉
RE: The Core One Kit Waiting List
For example: "the first kits will start shipping in March… then we will monitor the situation for a couple of weeks and restart after that." One person interprets that as an interruption of deliveries. That might be true, but it does not indicate how long. A day, a week, a month?
I am not a native speaker of English, but I thought that "a couple of weeks" either means "two weeks" in the strict sense, or "a few weeks", i.e. anywhere from more than one to, say, four? Not an entirely accurate time indication, but good enough for me. And in line with the wait that's required to see how the first group of builders manage.
If they "restart" after a couple of weeks, they must have stopped (deliveries) before, right? I can't come up with a different interpretation at the moment.
I too am waiting on a kit and two upgrades. I have one printer that I am holding off repairing till I get the Core One Kit. I refuse to let that which I can not change bother me.
I am not bothered by the wait. But am intrigued (and indeed a bit bothered) by the "wait and observe how it goes" period in the plan.
Well, I guess we will see a delivery schedule from Prusa eventually and can check whether it shows a gap. Or we will reverse-engineer one from the posts in this thread when people start receiving their kits. 😉
I guess I should have been clearer. I saw the couple of week, but I am saying that it is monitor for a couple of week but not necessarily a couple week of interruption. In other words, monitor for a couple of weeks does not mean they are shutting down to do so. That is how it is being interpreted. In fact, if they shut down or interrupt shipping, what is there to monitor? I just do not interpret monitor for a couple weeks as interrupting shipping for a couple weeks. I think those are two separate things. It is so vague. Restart what? It could be anything. My whole point is people might be getting bent out shape about nothing but a poor word choice or translation.
I simply think the words are an attempt to explain how they come up with a decent estimate of delivery times. It is simply a process explanation. I think we are reading into it too much.
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Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog