RE:
That said, I'm super excited about this and hope to be proven wrong, and whatever the schedule I fully intend to be there whenever pre-orders begin so that I'm in batch 1!
Yeah you and me both Chris.
I might moan a bit about Prusa but I’ll be front of the queue throwing money at it 😂
At the end of the day the VFA thing is a bit of a non issue for me now, I very rarely print anything in shiny filaments, matte and filled filament prints come off the Core One looking great.
I’ve been having a closer look at the INDX system and didn’t realise the tools are completely passive…it’s really innovative and which is something I feel Prusa has been lacking a bit over the last couple of years.
It should be seen as a coup for Prusa if they’re the exclusive partner with Bondtech for this. Obviously Bondtech will still sell kits for vorons etc, and we don’t know if this is actually Bondtechs INDX system yet…but all hints seem to point that way right now. Maybe that Bondtech will license it to Prusa.
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
... whatever the schedule I fully intend to be there whenever pre-orders begin so that I'm in batch 1!
I fully intend to do the opposite this time. I feel burnt with the Core One, and don't want to repeat the experience anytime soon. I might order the INDX this time next year, when it actually works and comes with a free roll of filament or two.
The fact that it took almost 6 months to get the Core One conversion kit from the date I ordered it was a blessing in disguise. Like you I’ll probably wait until the product has matured enough first.
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
My Core one went pretty smooth so im happy enough to go full on with this new system.
If im honest I kind of expected the initial 6 months of having a new prusa printer to be a bit bumpy so wad pleasantly surprised.
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
INDX was one of my 2 guesses for the MMU replacement, since it was not to be an upgrade. Add in the recent comments about limitations of an Open system. Also I don't see where I can buy a Bondtech INDX upgrade for anything yet. The INDX may still be in development, but getting close. I agree with those that believe next summer for wide release or availability.
One advantage will be no buffer and no end configuration to get reloads reliable.
In 41 years of manufacturing I have seen this product maturing cycle many times.
As home and small business 3D printing moves from basic function to more advanced machines we will see more proprietary hardware and possibly software also. Commercial 3D printers have been building their software for decades. While I like the Prusa Slicer, I know it is a far cry from what some commercial systems can do.
Still many questions to answer. One is can I still use my Prusa Core One nozzles? Will the current MMU connection on the Buddy board be sufficient for the INDX? Core one only? Most likely. The Core One is the platform for the next Decade from Prusa comments.
Until the INDX is available, I will keep using my MMU3 on the Core One.
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
My Core one went pretty smooth so im happy enough to go full on with this new system.
If im honest I kind of expected the initial 6 months of having a new prusa printer to be a bit bumpy so wad pleasantly surprised.
My grief is not so much that I spent a lot of time reading forums and fiddling with the printer in the first months. But that even after this effort, I am left with a printer that
- produces significant VFAs,
- has the wrong pitch on one of its three Z screws, and
- has a display that operates correctly only in sluggish, slowed-down data transfer mode.
And I can probably still count myself lucky since my Core One
- did not make nasty resonant noises,
- could calibrate its XY position with only 12 bangs right from the start,
- does not have problems doing its Z probing while the heater is on, and
- had grounded XY stepper motors right away so it did not crash from static discharges during extended prints.
And, come to think of it, none of these problems have been corrected in engineering or manufacturing yet, for all we know. So buying a new Prusa product one year after its announcement may not be enough of a wait if one wants reliability...
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
I am torn about this. It seems like it is coming in a little too late.
The indx (if it is actually the indx) looks cool. But I cannot allow myself to get excited about this for multiple reasons, just to name a few:
The core one has not yet a finished firmware
FW updates are spread apart without a clear path as to what is going to be addressed or when
Unreliable Prusa Connect software that has been disconnecting a random times for hours/weeks at the time
The competition already have, turn key systems that make Prusa look a bit obsolete.
Not a clear upgrade path at the moment for Core One other than the expectation that we will be getting something better an more reliable than what is being currently offered by others. I am not holding my breath, specially with this (whatever this new multi tool is) first generation.
I actually bought a BL H2d yesterday, nice machine. Ironically, I like the print quality of my core one more. I like the workflow of the Core One more (quick start up, quick print start and it gets going), and the core one seems to filter the air better than the H2d (which is important to me until I get a better workflow at home).
So for now, I will be keeping both machines - not for long and one will leave - and I will likely define this at the end of Q4 0nce both Prusa and BL show us what they got coming down the pipe.
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
I definitely appreciate your perspective and other responses to my initial post. If I am really getting the urge for MM and MC in the next 4-6 weeks, I'll go with the MMU3 enclosed and await the same/similar capabilities of the XL stuffed into a C1 - whenever that may be.
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
Regarding the filament routing...
I like the idea of an AMS-style, spools on top setup (ideally with integrated filament dryer). Four spools would probably be ok for me (with the option of going double decker if needed).
What I'm imagining is that the spools would all feed into ptfe tubes which are gathered together near the top of the spool box. The filament tubes would then come down through a hole in the centre of the core one lid. That should give enough height for the tool heads to move freely around the whole XY area.
RE:
So its definitely Bondtech INDX then 😎
TBH 4 filaments/materials is more than im ever likely to need, but the option for up to 6/7 is 🔥
RE:
Tsk. Programmers 🤦
I’m all for them indexing from zero in the software if that’s what they’re used to, but in the real world the first tool head should be number one, and the last tool head should have the same number as the total.
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
I'm not saying I believe this is true, but an exception to that could be if Tool 0 had a different function. Like an optical sensor that had some purpose- to separate it from the printing tools. Also note there is no ptfe tube visible all that way at 0. (Ignore there also isn't one at T1).
Ok, yeah, it's a camera that scans for obstructions on the print bed, flow rate, first layer anomalies, which print sheet you're using, etc 😉
Tsk. Programmers 🤦
I’m all for them counting and indexing from zero in the software if that’s what they’re used to, but in the real world the first tool head should be number one, and the last tool head should have the same number as the total.
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
I'm not saying I believe this is true, but an exception to that could be if Tool 0 had a different function. Like an optical sensor that had some purpose- to separate it from the printing tools. Also note there is no ptfe tube visible all that way at 0. (Ignore there also isn't one at T1).
Ok, yeah, it's a camera that scans for obstructions on the print bed, flow rate, first layer anomalies, which print sheet you're using, etc 😉
Well yes, I'd allow them that I guess, and it would indeed be interesting to find out what the zeroth tool head does. The angle of the photo makes it difficult to determine which PTFE tube goes to which position - is there a sixth (and seventh?) PTFE tube obscured by the door handle, or are there five, numbered 2 to 6?
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
I'm sure T0 is just in use, 1-6 are parked.
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
I own an XL but i was really excited when i saw the INDX a few months back. The idea sounded really good. And it should be rather cheap in comparison with what they charge for the XL. Especially now with BL H2C and Snapmaker U1. Except for the price the other think that concerns me is the difference in speed. I mean you dont miss what you dont have but usually you dont wan t to loose what you do. The speed of a preheated toolhead on the XL is really nice and it takes only a few seconds to change and keep printing. Hours faster than a single extruder solution. For the INDX it depends what will be the overhead for the heating up cycle everytime an extruder is picked up. Especially on materials like ABS/ASA. Bondteck claims that is really fast but that remains to be seen. If i was coming from mmu2s (which what i had before) i will go full throttle with my wallet wide open and my logic circuits switched off. But after the XL i learn a couple of things. First ... Speed counts. Now that i have the XL to go on a slower mm solution is a bit difficult for me. Second ... price counts. When i jumped the XL train my wallet started weeping but i couldnt hear it through the excitement. After getting and working with a XL, even if it is a decent machine (not perfect, not very good), it still doesn't worth the premium of 5k IMHO. Third is that the Multi toolheads in whatever form are becoming now an option on various brands. And that is getting interesting. And is more prudent to fight through the initial excitement see what is offered and go for it when it matures. And finally i prefer a decent solution now instead for an expensive promise that will be fulfilled in a years time.
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
I think it's a matter of perspective: we are looking at the T0-T5 tools and the rest is hidden by the door.
Sorry for my poor English. I try to do my best.
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
Someone on Reddit suggested that T0 is probably a bed sensing probe (as the INDX toolheads won't have loadcells). I think this is quite likely.
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
Someone on Reddit suggested that T0 is probably a bed sensing probe (as the INDX toolheads won't have loadcells). I think this is quite likely.
Does this mean that some sort of manual calibration between the bed sensor and each of the other tools will be necessary? I would have thought that even if the bed sensor and the nozzles are all made by Bondtech, there could still be enough variability between them to cause first layer issues. Is the XY position of each tool sufficiently confined, or will XY calibration of each tool also be necessary? Has anyone seen any information/videos on this?
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
Would the loadcell not be in the extruder assembly?
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
It might well be a custom-designed extruder which combines some Prusa features (specifically the load cell sensing) with the INDX nozzle docking and heating. I'd assume that Prusa does not want to give up a technology which they have marketed quite heavily as a differentiator. And they would also want to avoid the impression that they are totally giving up on a core piece of 3D printing technology and rely fully on a 3rd party for the extruder.
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
Would the loadcell not be in the extruder assembly?
I hope not
Sorry for my poor English. I try to do my best.