RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
Im with @hyiger here that I have absolutely zero interest in multi color printing, unpopular opinion time:
Multi color 3d prints invariably look cheap and crap.
*ducks for cover 😂
However I have an absolute burning need for just a second material, 95% of what I produce is functional and the possibilities of more than 1 material at a reasonable price point are extremely attractive.
It is literally down to price/value for money for me, I cannot justify spending the entire cost of a Snapmaker U1 on an upgrade for my Core One. I would be better off getting the Snapmaker and use that for my multilateral needs, and keep the Core One as is.
I fear the worst though regarding Prusa's pricing.
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
...Multi color 3d prints invariably look cheap and crap.
*ducks for cover 😂
...
Yes but so do single-color FDM prints. At least multicolor is ... umm, more colorful.
Oh well. Should have bought a resin printer. Or (multi-dimensional "super saver"...) LEGOs from the toy shop 🙂
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
My best multi colour print so far. 1:500 Scale Cunard QM2, 11 colours, about 70cm long.
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
INDX is a clever and elegant design and I think will be a good add on, and I will certainly be building a CoreOne and SV08 version - but there are quite a few features in the BambuLab H2C Vortek that are way ahead of it - particularly filament and PTFE management, and colour handling within the slicer.
I suspect later implementations of the INDX will take on board some of the better (if more complex) features of Vortek - as I think handling more than 5 or 6 colours and PTFEs etc. is going to become quite unwieldy on the bigger INDX machines.
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
Welcome to Prusa. WAY over driving their headlights on production and delivery. ‘Aspirational’ marketing to keep us in the fold and not jumping ship. Been doing it since the Mini? Before? I think the Core1 was the first time they launched and sold something prettty much at the same time. Just how they operate. Remember all the ‘numerology’ around trying to figure out when your XL would show up…. Fun days.
The Core One spool holder drybox solution was mentioned in a blog post in January. It was stated it would be released around April/May.
Nothing.
The Core One 'Next Gen' MMU solution was mentioned several months back considering the MMU3 solution is a tacke don - rather ugly - afterthought thats too 'messy' to implement.
Nothing.
A pattern seems to be developing here.
Now a new INDX system has been teased. but nothing mentioned. I very much doubt this will come any time this year TBH.
Yet the competition have spool management/drybox/storage solutions all in place. They are pushing ahead with dual nozzle designs, extruder heads that can be changed for lasers, all kinds of developments. And these systems work. In fact, they seem to work really, really well. I've personally started using my H2D a hell of a lot more then my Core One. I've been hanging on to my Core One waiting for this next gen MMU solution, as well as the ironing out of 'teething problems', but I'm fast losing patience. After seeing what I can do with my H2D - the fact that it 'just works' straight out of the box - it's clear Prusa really do need to do something really special to keep up, not just with Bambu, but with other manufacturers too, who all continue to innovate and develop.
If Prusa continue with their poor road map alongside their existing poor comms, I fear they will head down the same route as GoPro have. The competition will be so far ahead they'll leave Prusa for dust.
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
On pricing it’s been mentioned here before and snip image from Bondtech INDX page attached. “Targeting for each thin passive tool to cost around 35 EUR/USD and for the smart tool head to cost around 250 EUR/USD”
I would think, like the XL, Prusa will give the option of the number of passive tools when buying, with the ability to increase in the future. As Prusa will be able to buy in bulk from bondtech or have potentially just licensed the IP and will make in house, it’s not inconceivable for them to match that price and still comfortably make a profit.
Bamboo’s AMS is the main competitor in the market at the moment for multi colour with the biggest market share. A different tech for sure but will be what they likely target regarding pricing. Currently priced between 300-350eur, I’d put money down that’s the price Prusa will aim to match. Possibly with only 2 passive tool heads to start though.
RE:
On pricing it’s been mentioned here before and snip image from Bondtech INDX page attached. “Targeting for each thin passive tool to cost around 35 EUR/USD and for the smart tool head to cost around 250 EUR/USD”
I would think, like the XL, Prusa will give the option of the number of passive tools when buying, with the ability to increase in the future. As Prusa will be able to buy in bulk from bondtech or have potentially just licensed the IP and will make in house, it’s not inconceivable for them to match that price and still comfortably make a profit.
Bamboo’s AMS is the main competitor in the market at the moment for multi colour with the biggest market share. A different tech for sure but will be what they likely target regarding pricing. Currently priced between 300-350eur, I’d put money down that’s the price Prusa will aim to match. Possibly with only 2 passive tool heads to start though.
I'd love it if this 300-350 euro is accurate, or even close mate. Just got a nasty feeling it could be way off.
I don't want to pay for 5-8 toolheads when realistically I'm only interested in 2, obviously the option to buy extra toolheads if/when I need them later is a bonus.
I'm really growing to love my C1, just printed a few batches of parts today and when everything is dialled in, this thing is capable of fast, borderline flawless printing.
I NEED a multi material option, but I'm not made of money.
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
On pricing it’s been mentioned here before and snip image from Bondtech INDX page attached. “Targeting for each thin passive tool to cost around 35 EUR/USD and for the smart tool head to cost around 250 EUR/USD”
Well, Bondtech has also been "targeting" certain release dates, and then found themselves with the need to do another design iteration. They may equally find that they have to add some COGS, and hence raise the price somewhat. Let's wait until the INDX can actually be ordered.
Bamboo’s AMS is the main competitor in the market at the moment for multi colour with the biggest market share. A different tech for sure but will be what they likely target regarding pricing. Currently priced between 300-350eur, I’d put money down that’s the price Prusa will aim to match. Possibly with only 2 passive tool heads to start though.
Right. In the same way the Prusa Core One is "matching" the price of the comparable Bambu P1S, you mean? 😉
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
I'm not holding my breath. I have an XL 5T as well and it took quite some time for them to get it dialed in. To be honest I'd be interested in a refresh for that, say an XLS or similar. I've mixed feelings about the the core one I have, upgraded from MK4S. So much so I'm holding off on doing the second one, even though I bought the kit and it's just sitting here in the box. I do a good bit of TPU printing, and TPU printing on the core one is iffy. The bogie mods for the nextruder(both xl and mk4s/core one) do help, but there's so much drag in the filament path and the confined environment in the core one enclosure just makes it annoying. The XL has a lot more room to do things like help soft tpu load into the extruder at the start. TPU always seems like an afterthought on prusa printers and nearly always you have to do third-party mods to make it work ok. I guess what I'm saying is it seems like the need to refine the core one before they bolt more extruders on.
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
Are we thinking too narrow when it comes to the INDX technology? Just a multi-head?
How will inductive heating add to value? Does it do fast heat changes? Would being able to change temperature faster be a benefit? Our experience and software is all geared to extruders where temperature is a relatively slow change. We don't have the specs on the heating capacity yet. Will it be 40W equivalent or higher allowing faster printing?
Eliminating a buffer or rewinder and minimizing the PTFE tube length is another definite advantage from my experience.
Multiple nozzle sizes could be a benefit. Consider fine details on the profiles with smaller nozzles and infills with bigger nozzles to minimize time. Will it support multiple filament diameters? For a hobby user, saving 10-15% on print time is OK. For a print farm business it is a lot of money.
The wait will be worth it if the INDX is done correctly and certified for safety requirements. I often worked with new tech. Having the integrity to go through 4 development cycles is commendable if they get it right. I have seen many projects pushed to release too early.
As I see it, there is going to be a lot of software development to catch up with the capabilities the INDX and it's descendents may provide.
Still a lot of questions and speculation, but I have seen enough to be getting in line early for the INDX.
RE:
...Multi color 3d prints invariably look cheap and crap.
*ducks for cover 😂
...
Yes but so do single-color FDM prints. At least multicolor is ... umm, more colorful.
Oh well. Should have bought a resin printer. Or (multi-dimensional "super saver"...) LEGOs from the toy shop 🙂
Off topic but I picked up a resin printer. My opinion only, but they are WAAAYY more trouble than they are worth. Resin is nasty and it gets everywhere. Post processing prints is a royal PITA. I suppose it's useful if you are printing a lot of miniatures (or legos). One advantage of an SLA printer is that print time is not a function of volume but the number of layers and layer height. So if you need to print something 20x and it will fit on the build plate, it won't take any longer than printing just one. I bought mine because I have a need to print small accurate gears for a project. I should have bought a CNC instead...
Back on topic, I have a part I designed that needs internal dissolvable supports. I also want to be able to print TPU on top of a nylon part (as a gasket).
Anyway, if I ever need multi-color, there is always paint.
- Bob Marley
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
Really wish there was more time to edit posts... Correction to above: SLA print time is a function of number of layers and exposure time and FDM is volume and flow rate... But I digress...
- Bob Marley
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
Posted by: @jurgenRight. In the same way the Prusa Core One is "matching" the price of the comparable Bambu P1S, you mean? 😉
That’s a fair point but we’re not talking about a printer but an upgrade to multi material on a functioning printer. The MMU3 is already priced comparably to the AMS. You could argue why would they match that price for INDX to take share of the MMU3, but they did it to the MK4 with the Core one. Everything Prusa has done to date says they won’t. But they will at least look at it as a target. Ultimately the Core One hasn’t been the slam dunk they hoped for to take on Bamboo. The INDX is that last shot to maintain the segment of the market they have. If the company honestly don’t realise it and fuck this up purely on pricing then, yes they will go the way of the Dodo. Only so much customer loyalty buys you and how much people are willing to pay above the competitor. Apple manages it by giving the customer an air of prestige, and generally a simple and refined product. The core one is not that!
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
Yep, I have to agree… The Indx has to come out at a price point that makes it a killer… And they do need to do some serious work on making color much easier to slice with.
I need to spend more time playing with it but the slicing for the MMU in Prusia slicer is anything but convenient or obvious.
I have 10 filament options configured for the AMS system on the Bambu and it just works.
even a little odd is that if I want to use PLA support for PETG I have to go through machinations in Pru slicer that I just don’t have to do in our automatically handled the bambu slicer. It’s stuff like that that drives customers away.